California lawmakers rein in bill to limit car speeds | Hacker News Reader

California lawmakers rein in bill to limit car speeds

politico.com

Hopefully this will get Californians outraged enough that they raise speed limits to match the speed of traffic.

Speed limits, especially on highways, were generally set when car technology was a lot less safe at speed.

At least here in SoCal it's not uncommon for the prevailing speed on the highway to be 20+ mph over the limit. I've definitely passed cops doing 85 in a 65 and have never been pulled over for speeding.

Seems like it's time to raise the speed limit. Texas did!

California's speed trap law [1] prevents enforcement of speed limits that weren't set by a traffic survey within 5 years of the violation; subject to some exclusions --- school zone limits can be enforced.

IIRC, highway speed limits at or above 55 (maybe 60?) also don't need a survey either.

Unlike some other states, California has a truck speed limit of 55 mph. I don't think it's great to have the car speed limit set too much beyond that. Especially on the middle of nowhere freeways where people tend to find room to really speed... It's not great when people are doing 80+ and come across a group of 55 mph trucks.

[1] https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio...

pretty much right. the traffic survey requirement only affects "posted" speed limits.

the unconditional "maximum speed" limit of 65 or 55 on two-lane [1] is not part of the speed-trap law.

the 55 MPH limit for vehicles towing (big trucks and cars and anything else towing) is a worthless relic and positively unsafe. there are only a few other states that do this, and several of them are busy repealing it.

[1] https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio...

California's maximum freeway speed is 65, which is about 20 mph too low if you want an honest limit. Highway speed limits don't generally need a study there.

Speeds on California surface roads (IMO) are mostly not that bad, like within 5 mph of the natural speed you would use on the road.

No, 85 is crazy fast and also crazy inefficient.

Yeah some roads can stand to be 75.

The point of a limit is that it's a number that is illegal to exceed. We have sort of forgotten about that notion because we all ignore speed limits wholesale (or treat them as recommended speeds).

"Inefficient" doesn't get there, and also, on an open road, 85 is fine. Lots of other charges are available for someone going 85 on a crowded road.

I don’t think the inefficiency between 75 and 85 is going to be that much.

Maybe yes on the scale of everyone….

https://www.mpgforspeed.com/

85 is crazy fast? Come on now.

Speed limits are rarely increased, only decreased.

Ground transportation times get longer and longer

The publicly stated goal of many (most?) Californian leaders is to get people out of cars and into public or alternative transport. Hence the last decade of lowering speed limits, raising tolls, adding "traffic calming" measures, reducing lanes of travel, not building more capacity to match increasing population, raising fees involved with vehicle ownership, reducing available parking, increased speed cameras/traps, etc., etc., etc. Raising speed limits would make driving a better and more efficient experience and thus would run counter to those goals and will never happen.

If I see 65, I'm going 75.

I worry that raising the limit would result in people driving even faster

Can attest to that.

In the 1990s, ABS was not required for auto-manufacturers. I'm not driving slow to be a prick, but doing 85 in that boat with a soft suspension is terrifying. 95 is a death wish move.

General PSA to those who might need to hear it. That huge buffer I leave between me and the car in front of me, I need that. If I get hard on the brakes, my wheels will lock up and I will have less control until I release and then reapply. For cars built without ABS, that's how breaks work.

Some people drive cars even older than mine where they have to pump their brakes to stop.

If you see someone in a old car driving slow please just go around. Please.

Cars that require the driver to pump the brakes should not be on the road. Cars without ABS have shorter stopping distance than cars with it (yes, more control, but this is California we are talking about, the road is always dry).

Maybe so, I seem to recall hearing that one point. However, there's a lot of variables to that (i.e., road surface [pot holes/dips], surface temperature, sand/salt on the surface, tire type, etc). What I can tell you is that even on dry road services, she gets squirrely if I lock them up, so I avoid screeching my tires. I owned several boats (i.e., a large sedan) without ABS, and they've all behaved the same.

This conversation also has me wondering, how many people don't understand ABS (not you). What I'm getting at here is how many people drive in a manner that has them constantly activating their ABS system...

I haven't activated ABS for braking very often, but it's pretty loud when I do... Not as loud as locking up tires, of course. But I would think people would learn to change their driving if they're getting thumping on braking frequently.

I think the finding is that for a straight line stop on dry, good pavement and a trained driver with proper technique, a car with ABS will take more distance.

But if you don't have those preconditions, ABS will likely shorten the distance. Many drivers never had the training and practice to modulate the brakes for maximum stopping while maintaining heading.

But there's 100+ years of regulatory practice to allow vehicles to continue on the road as long as the meet the standards when they were manufactured.

Wonder how the limiter is going to know what the current speed limit is? Map data, sign monitoring?

I was on a business trip to Korea years ago and had a friend / co-worker who was native Korean drive us around. He said there were certain sections of the highway where they keep track of your average speed and if it exceeds the limit for that section, you'd get fined. Not sure how the tracking works in that case, but I'd imagine it's probably something RFID related where you cross a checkpoint that keeps track of start time and an end checkpoint and calculates accordingly.

The UK has this and it's super-frustrating! (aka it works!). With those radar based grey box cameras you see in urban areas, you just have to make sure you were not speeding when going past them (they even put handy calibration marks on the road to help you notice them). But the average speed ones have overhead cameras that read your license plate every 5-8 miles so you have no choice really but to stick to the speed limit (I have no idea what the margin of error is). Driving from Inverness to Edinburgh (A9 I think), they are quite frequent.

I feel a little cheated really, in the US it's you vs the state trooper, they have to see you to ticket you. You can almost always get away with 10 over on the highway and on a familiar road you usually know where those crossovers that they hang out in and Waze is pretty good at reporting cops in near real-time. Even if you end up passing a waiting cop they won't stop you for 75 in a 65. I'm pretty sure you'd get a ticket every time for 10 over in the UK!

Speed, then stop on the side of the road to consume a Sandwich or do some texting while waiting for the average to go down

Most likely it's camera based, using the license plate. We have something similar in Australia that is used for trucks but not cars (so far).

One of the side effects of Google completely mapping the developed countries has been a comprehensive map of the speed limits - if you use Waze it already warns you when you're exceeding the limit by changing the colour of the speed icon. I actually find it pretty handy on the highways here.

WA actually has it implemented for all vehicles on Forrest highway.

The one toll highway in Ontario has cameras at every exit and if you don’t have a transponder it takes a photo of your license plate. Been like that for something like 25 years. I imagine it’s as simple as that.

That would just need a camera pointed at the license plates.

Speed traps of this sort are specifically illegal in California.

ISTR that turnpike highways in the eastern U.S. simply record when cars reach each tollbooth. If a car arrives too soon at a booth, the driver is automatically fined for driving too fast. Can anybody confirm this?

At least in MA, NH and FL, no not at all. I always slow to the limit for the toll booths (even the high speed tolling ones), but then I'm back to 10 over until the next one. Never had a ticket, I believe a cop has to see you speed and ticket you (you have a right to face your accuser or something like that, possibly urban legend).

NH has a lot of troopers on their highways, you really can't drive far without seeing several. In MA, I rarely see MSP troopers on the highways (aside from the one taking a nap in the middle of the cloverleaf on a big interchanges during the early evening commute when the traffic is crawling).

Driving through the NYC/NJ/Baltimore/DC I95 corridor, there's a lot of tolling going on, express lanes etc but I've never had a ticket despite averaging 10 over driving through at night.

FL has lots of tolling going on, but I can't say I've ever seen a FL trooper on patrol, usually only at the scene of an accident/breakdown.

Having sped past a lot of state troopers in NH, there are a lot on the highway, but they're usually on watch for assholes rather than just speeding.

If it's a requirement for CA cars but not in other states, the car market might get messy. No other states' drivers will put up with this quietly. Youtube videos on how to disable will be quite popular.

California emissions were a thing for years before the federal requirements caught up. The car market in California is big enough to get special equipment.

Yes. During that time, auto dealers in neighboring states will see an uptick in sales.

Also, sales of high performance cars will be interesting. Higher-end BMWs and Audis, Porsche, Ferrari, McClaren, Bugatti, Lamborghini, etc. Basically, expensive cars, for people with money. More of them will probably say screw this to CA.

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