But Tesla is not blameless with their marketing "Autopilot", "Full self driving", blah blah, giving people a false sense of security. I can't think of a worse problem to try and solve with AI. GPT hallucinates and gives a wrong fact. No biggie, but annoying. Tesla FSD hallucinates and runs over a child, a biggie.
The driver is criminally liable to the estate of the young man he killed. Tesla may be liable for money damages to the driver they misled. (Maybe the estate also has a civil claim on Tesla if they can show its marketing was grossly negligent.)
It’s certainly not hard to make the case for either, especially given Tesla’s apparent inaction after a number of people have died while Autopilot is active and a number of accidents have occurred while Autopilot is active. Cf the Crumbleys: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68223118
Also a pedantic point: the driver is civilly liable to the estate. Criminal charges (and hence criminal liability) can only be brought by the state.
I'm not. But it would be precedent setting. Given this case has the driver admitting to cops that he was distracted in a way Tesla's user manual presumably tells you not to be, I'm not sure I'd start here.
> pedantic point: the driver is civilly liable to the estate
You're right, I was being loose with my words.
If progress for automobiles is that it has to be perfect (and not just better) then the only answer is to use automobiles less or have stricter training standards for drivers.
I do think there needs to be strong proof that it is better to avoid liability. And I agree Tesla's marketing is bad and should make Tesla liable.
Article says Autopilot was engaged, not FSD. You can't just check out after engaging autopilot on a plane.
Tesla and similar obviously are not pushing to take on that liability, courts/legislatures aren't particularly interested in putting that liability on the manufacturers. So that leaves the drivers to try and offload the liability from themselves.
Unfortunately drivers are not particularly well equipped to be pushing that liability off themselves so there it stays. Insurance companies are better equipped for that sort of thing but they're only interested in the financial liability. The criminal liability, is definitely not going anywhere anytime soon.
It's premature to conclude this. We don't have enough real-world cases off which to construct a framework.
> Insurance companies are better equipped for that sort of thing but they're only interested in the financial liability
Even this hasn't been cleanly severed in any competent jurisdiction.
Precisely, it's premature to conclude that anybody but the driver is at fault. Until a sufficient body of law has been built towards the alternative it will remain by default with the driver.
But, if the car literally didn't see a person in front of it (where reasonably a human would 99.9999% of the time) because it's cameras malfunctioned or the LLM read it as something else, then those cars should not be on the road.
AI will always behave differently to human cognition, we should expect them to have different illusions and different failure cases. That doesn’t mean worse, if they perform better than a legal human driven car on average then I don’t think there’s a justification to exclude them.
That said, they will probably have to be _significantly_ better than human drivers in order to survive the media and public perception, so this might be irrelevant in the end.
Sometimes also a biggie: https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkadgm/man-dies-by-suicide-a...
We are just too primitive/traditional to understand.
Anyway, after 6 month health issue, I will literally laugh at people who think there is some value in enduring pain. Children.
[1] https://pro.bloomberglaw.com/insights/litigation/contributor...
This situation is the opposite of that, because multiple people were knowingly reckless.
Edit: By "multiple people" I mean the driver and Elon.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_and_several_liability
If we're talking about tort law, then yes, damages are measured in dollars. And those damages are absolutely subject to rules about how they are split when multiple people are liable.
If we're talking about crimes, then "percent of blame" is nonsensical. There is no percent liability for a crime, you either are guilty or you are not.
FSD is not Autopilot.
FSD does a pretty good job of pedestrian and cyclist identification. It’s supposed to.
Autopilot (which is what I use most)… I dunno… I’ve never had a problem in SF, LA, or Vegas.
Great question. I don’t know if they are different.
FSD is asked to do way more than AP… that’s all I’m certain of.
I've stopped using it unless I'm the only person on the road.
That was my original experience. It was so bad that I strongly recommended people not get it.
That said, the new FSD update (supervised beta) has been super smooth both on the interstate and in town for me. Have you tried it?
I always want Tesla to test their systems in a European urban center, see how they deal with tourists and trams set in picturesque 19th century streets.
Holy shit, yes. And a bunch of other crazy pedestrian shit.
I mean, it’s not a biking Mecca or anything, but cars and trucks aren’t your only concern in Vegas.
SF sort of takes the cake of those three, with cyclists, one wheelers, scooters, pedestrians, and folks who are flying on something that they only experience. I’ve done AP there on certain streets (esp. with stop and go traffic) with no problem.
The peripheral areas of greater LA also have lots of non-auto traffic to deal with.
[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas_Convention_Center_...
Neither FSD nor AP will be allowed to turn on or stay on in these conditions.
It is amazing and useful, and assuredly makes me a better driver than I am without it.
I am begoggled at the scolds who think the "deceptive" branding contained _in a single word_ is sufficient to override the lived experience of driving with this fantastic (if flawed?) tool.
"Tesla will unveil a robotaxi on August 8, according to Musk" - https://www.engadget.com/tesla-will-unveil-a-robotaxi-on-apr...