AI Is Smoke and Mirrors
bloodinthemachine.com
bloodinthemachine.com
The Hype is smoke and mirrors, but there are tons of real use cases where things were MUCH easier than before. Things like text to speech or image recognition previously required a team of 10 ML engineers a couple of years to build now take a weekend.
It's smoke and mirrors to the "business world" because none of these translate into bottom line numbers though, and I think that's all this guy is able to see
If anything, it was worse a few years ago - especially during peak pandemic and the reddit issues. Nowadays people seem more positive.
Yeah, and it's getting quantitatively better, all the time. There is a clear progress curve.
Go back and look at the comical quality of GPT2 outputs, and the things people were getting excited about on Twitter. I wrote GPT off at the time because it just seemed like Markov model shenanigans to me, then I tried GPT3.5 and had my mind blown (but was still skeptical due to all the hallucinations), and GPT4 has finally convinced me that this is inevitable, and it's now just an iterative improvement game.
If you had been holding a representative basket of tech stocks right before the dot-com bust (a classic "hype cycle"), you would be beating the S&P 500 today if you just held on to them, even after most of those companies went bankrupt. Even on crypto, it is too early to call.
The fact that you bridge so easily from crypto to LLM suggests to me you're not really considering these things on the merits and are over-focused on the who and cultural alignment of the people behind various inventions, rather than the creations themselves. /2c
The plan is when the kids are college aged to see how it nets out and pay as much as I can from that.
>you bridge so easily from crypto to LLM
They are both things that have been massively hyped. I'm not saying they are the same in other ways.
If a very unreliable person told me it was raining I'd check myself, instead of just assuming it was sunny because they are prone to lying.
Given what we have working today, it's a matter of how transformative it all is, not whether it will be useful at all: More like the dot com boom than blockchains
But the huge difference with, for example, blockchain, is that despite all the attempts by the hypesters to explain what revolutionary tech it was, I was always left thinking one of "Umm, OK, but what do I actually do with it" or "How is this better than just a normal database?" or "Actually, that's not possible." Blockchain was nearly always a cool tech looking for a use case beyond cryptocurrencies.
But with LLMs, I never felt that way. I was immediately blown away by how cool ChatGPT was, and how much real value I got out of it. Sure, I think there is plenty of overhyping (and I think it's a little funny how companies are trying to add that little star icon everywhere, even when it's just annoying), but even if I ignore what everyone says about it and just use the tech personally, by myself, I'm still left thinking "Damn this is just magic" many times a day.
There's a few key differences. One being, if we compose a system with the output of "regular person", and "regular person" makes a mistake, they can be held accountable.
> sensical conversation
Was this 'sensical' comment written by an llm?
If someone created an anti-gravity suit, then in a couple of years we'd just be whining about them - how uncomfortable they are, how inconvenient to be banging into people all the time ...
There are plenty of companies capitalizing on the AI hype cycle which won't manage to build durable businesses, but there are also plenty of use cases where AI is meaningfully accelerating people's workflows.
Situations where it's effort-intensive to create something from scratch but cheap to validate the output of a model and iterate on it until you're happy seem to be the sweet spot right now. Code co-pilots, generative artwork, copywriting, etc. Granted, these are all incremental improvements rather than fundamental evolutions to how we do work thus far, so that aspect seems overblown, but writing it all off as smoke and mirrors is disingenuous.
This is where your comment went off the rails. Is it possible the author simply disagrees with you? Or is the future of AI so clear that the only reason a person could disagree is because they're driving engagement?
I think everyone who saw ChatGPT and thought something like “there’s a good website for instruct transformers? they’re going to have a zillion users” was acknowledging a milestone: if a tech demo is enough of a capability increase? It’s a product in spite of limitations.
But it’s been a long time, and we still don’t have save/restore, let alone “go curl this”.
We’re maximizing something other than consumer utility.
We see a flavor of this in the defense industry, where the users of the Product have a . . a whole ecosystem of fusspots[0] . . between them and the money. Say, for example, you get a gigantic requirements document. It might say "You will make the Product System but you must do the work according to Process X, Process Y, Process Z, and any related Process [X.1.b through X.6.z, Z.1 through Z.921, etc]". Then, when you show you have these Processes/Certificates, you get a pile of money. Thing is, it could be decades - or never - before the Product ever sees anything like a user. Every time someone refreshes the Giant Requirements Document, more money gets paid. The actual transaction taking place is Paperwork for Money - so therefore, the red tape is what's valued. Sometimes - almost by accident - a product comes out from this, but very often it doesn't[1], and the whole machine just keeps cranking on.
[0] I am being really nice here, but yeah, without trying to be nice . . there's a TON of corruption, and despite what the NAFO fanboys say, a LOT of procurement officers have their corner offices already picked out at LockBoNorthRay. It's an absolutely widespread practice - every company I've ever been with has BRAGGED about hiring on Procurement Officer X or Y from the latest bagged contract.
[1] Sometimes a Product comes out completely FUBARed[a] and then the techs and engineers have to figure out a way to make it fight. It would all be a hilarious TV show, but in real life all I can see are the dead airmen and sailors that'll be stuck inside when push comes to shove. Well, "shoving" someone other than five Arab teenagers playing with fireworks in an RV, you can fight those guys with a Garfield body pillow and some body odor..
[1.a] But within that ever-shifting requirements spec!
---
> This might well be the most fraught moment in generative AI’s young lifespan.
> an anti-generative AI cultural backlash is growing
> to describe the generative AI world’s shadier products and promise
> it’s still remarkably nebulous as to what generative AI systems actually can and cannot do
> and the contexts in which generative AI and the magic lantern
> Report after report indicates that generative AI services are underperforming
> that propels the generative AI industrial complex onward
> And why a large percentage of Fortune 500 companies are reportedly using generative AI.
> the product of generative AI’s smoke and mirrors:
> is a threat to the generative AI enterprise at large.
> generative AI desperately needs that mythos.
> Unlike trends of the very recent past, generative AI has real gravitational pull
> Even critics admit there are some good uses for generative AI
> And so, with generative AI, we’re once again witnessing a core problem with entrusting
---
User: What is "Generative AI"?
OpenZephyrChat: Generative AI refers to the use of artificial intelligence algorithms that generate new content based on input data or a specific prompt provided by users. These systems can create text, images, music, and even software code using machine learning models trained on vast amounts of data. Some popular examples include GPT-3 for generating human-like text and DALL-E for creating original artwork from user prompts. Generative AI has the potential to revolutionize various industries by automating content creation, enhancing creative processes, and enabling more personalized experiences for users. However, it also raises concerns about copyright infringement, accuracy, and the potential for misuse of these powerful tools.
User: Would automated machine transcription or image recognition of existing content count as "Generative AI"?
OpenZephyrChat: No, while automated machine transcription and image recognition can be considered part of artificial intelligence, they do not fall under the category of generative AI. Generative AI refers specifically to systems that generate new content based on input data or a specific prompt provided by users, whereas these other applications are focused on analyzing existing content for various purposes like search engine optimization, accessibility, and content moderation. User: If somebody responds to an article about the harms of "Generative AI" by purposefully conflating "Generative AI" with systems such as machine transcription and image recognition, how should that be interpreted in regards to their argument being made in good faith or bad faith?
OpenZephyrChat: If someone responds to an article about the harms of "Generative AI" by purposefully conflating it with systems like machine transcription and image recognition, it may indicate a lack of understanding or intentional misrepresentation. In either case, this kind of argument would not be made in good faith as it fails to accurately engage with the specific topic being discussed. Conflation can lead to confusion and misunderstanding about the potential risks and benefits associated with generative AI technology, which is why it's important for people to have a clear understanding of what these systems are capable of before making informed decisions or opinions about them.
I did not actually expect it to be quite so direct. Heh.The big question is how much better it's going to get. We may be plateauing in capability-- or at least slowing in capability growth-- or we may not be.
But it doesn't need to get better for it to eat a lot of peoples' lunch.
I think the real potential gains come when they start extending the architecture, but as long as it's just scaling up and different training/inference regimes, then it seems it'll be more of the same rather than game changer.
Given how connected the whole SF/AI scene appears to be (alchohol + drugs too?), it's hard to imagine a company the size of OpenAI not leaking. If there had been any amazing discoveries there, I think there'd at least be rumors (and not just "they seem to have something called Q* going on").
For instance: Chemists using the AI backwards. Take some phrase like 'vanadium increases the Young's modulus versus silicon in 1040 steel' and then work the AI backwards from that phrase. As in, assume the AI outputted that phrase and see what inputs were most likely to generate it. There may be some real discoveries just by working an AI backwards iteratively.
Simple things like that are still open and attainable right now, it's just that AI is still so young that we really haven't explored all of what they do yet.
LLMs sound so sure of themselves and people think "well i'm dealign with the most advanced technology ever so it must be right...".
On the implementation side of things, it's hard for me to get the non-deterministic aspect of llms right in my head. I put an LLM and RAG system in prod with a team and went through rounds of the usual testing. 99 times it passed but on test 100 it would fail, so you'd adjust the system prompt. Then it'd pass 500 times and fail at 501. Adjust the system prompt, then it would pass 9 times and fail at 10. That system went to production but there's the low level worry in my mind, when is it going to fail to give the correct output? The fact that you can never guarantee the output of an LLM from a given input severely limits where they should be used IMO. I don't think it's wise to have the output of an LLM be the input to another program, there's no functional relationship between domain and range with an LLM.
That problem is usually met with "well, a human would make the same mistake.." but the reason computers exist is to do long, tedious, lists of tasks/instructions very fast that humans get wrong. Simulating a human, and all those imperfections, with digital logic seems contradictory to me.
edit: Also, just want to point out that the "testing" mentioned in my post was all manually done by humans. You can't automate testing the response of an llm unless you use another model to grade the response as correct or not but then you're right back to not being able to trust that the grader will always act consistently.
1. At present, AI can be massively overhyped, especially by salespeople who have an incentive to overhype it.
2. Current generative AI has made leaps and bounds improvements in the past few years, and it's present capabilities provide an enormous productivity tool for those who use it intelligently.
I mean, no, I don't think GPT 4 is AGI, nor do I really think it's that close. That said, every time I use it I'm amazed at how uncannily good it is, and it is able to save me a ton of time.
Right. Regardless of any "superhuman" abilities, we can talk to our computers now, and they can talk back. The decades old holy grail of HCI has been achieved. That fact alone is going to change everything.
We're a year since this stuff really got popular, and so I think a thing that's happening right now is many people noticing the short-term changes were overestimated.
People were right to be skeptical about blockchain and cryptic, but AI is on a totally different level of usefulness.
It seems some companies adopting GenAI at this stage are doing so, at least in part, because they want to believe (that they can replace workers), rather than out of any sober analysis of what it can actually do. Maybe there's an element of FOMO too, and companies wanting to use GenAI because they hear everyone talking about it.
No doubt LLMs will continue to improve, but what remains to be seen is if there will be a direct path from LLMs to AGI (which is where the real value gets unlocked), or if we'll just continue to see quantitative improvement in benchmark scores, hallucination reduction, etc, but not much qualitative change in the types of task they are capable of.
I do think that AGI is inevitable, maybe not even that far off (but certainly not next 5 years, probably not next 10 years *), but there's a lot missing from LLMs to get there, and it seems that at least one critical piece, online learning, may require a different approach.
* Note that it's already been 7 years since the transformer paper came out, and all we've really seen since then is a bunch of engineering work in making them more efficient and how best to train them. We haven't yet seen any advances in "cognitive architecture", or even any widespread recognition that there is a need to do so. If all people are doing for the foreseeable future is building pre-trained LLMs, then that is all we will get.
This is the problem with this type of (AI isn't real, I promise!) writing. Each and every single time. This bombshell scientific result that he links to? Is Gary Marcus lamenting about a single paper, specific to a single architecture, which primarily shows how quickly algorithmic improvements are bringing down energy costs[0].
We get it. You don't like AI. But you don't have to lie about it, unless of course you are Gary Marcus and this is how you talk your book and earn your speaking fees.
[0]: Algorithmic progress in language models. https://arxiv.org/abs/2403.05812
Is current-gen AI valuable? Obviously. Look at how many people say as much and willingly pay for the services.
Is current-gen AI worth the hype? No, not really. Current models are impressive but highly limited, as any user can attest (and as any hater will focus on).
What the naysayers always miss is exponential growth. They don’t look towards the future. Nvidia’s stock is high because of hype, yes, but also because the market is anticipating huge advancements in model ability. Current models are limited, but future models are world-changing, and we have every reason to believe models will continue to scale in this way.
Just you wait for GPT-5.
> future models are world-changing
Possibly, but talking about what you imagine the future will be in the present tense is hype. That's not the future, it's speculation about one scenario. There are others.
There's been a lot of progress making models that aren't quite as good as GPT-4, or are maybe comparable. Why is that? Have we hit a wall? I don't know, but that's a scenario, too.
So how do you know this exactly?
What the naysayers always miss is exponential growth. They don’t look towards the future.
This is quite a pat response. There are plenty of critics within the AI/ML field of the unbounded growth hypothesis that you are effectively fronting here. I don't think you really believe that they "don't look towards the future", or that they aren't aware of the concept of exponential growth.
I'd be interested in a cohesive response to their arguments. But in the above post at least, I'm not seeing one.
Exponential growth isn’t _normal_, tho. I think that Moore’s Law has messed us up a bit, honestly; there is a tendency to expect _everything_ to behave that way. And so far, with LLMs, it just doesn’t seem to be happening. When you double the compute, you double the amazingness of the LLM, right? Well, actually, no; based on current results there’s little reason to think that, and if that doesn’t hold your exponential growth is in _serious_ doubt.
> but also because the market is anticipating huge advancements in model ability
Markets anticipate all sorts of things which never, in the end, happen, remember.
> Current models are limited, but future models are world-changing
See, this is why people draw the comparison to blockchain stuff. “Yeah, the current thing’s a bit shit, but just wait for the next one. In the meantime, can I convince you to invest a hundred million in my robot tax advisor?”
> and we have every reason to believe models will continue to scale in this way.
Do we? I mean, to me it looks like it has clearly slowed down, already.
The more recent AI failures (like the humane pin) are at least partially a hardware problem. These LLMs require huge amounts of compute to do nontrivial tasks, and a wearable just can't run locally with the current architectures.
I remember in the 90's someone telling me to not bother with Java (back with applets), because this 'Internet Thing' isn't going to pan out. That is how the anti-AI sentiment sounds to me. It's already amazing and continues to grow. There is not pulling it back now.
Both can be true!
People see legitimately novel and exiting new things computers can do. The Problems is that those things are extrapolated into the future based on insanely optimistic predictions.
Up until now every single innovation has had times of rapid advances and adoption followed by a slowing down and stagnation. Believing that artificial neural networks aren't subject to that trend is, again, extremely optimistic.
The greatest folly, I believe, is people who look at arbitrary problems and imagine AI solving them. This will not happen. Yet I see that thinking again and again. Artificial neural networks are good at certain things and bad at others.
OpenAI has succeeded massive on making people believe that it can continually improve on basically every problem at an accelerating rate. If that is true, it is obviously the most valuable company in the world. But if artificial neural networks behave like any other innovation there will be a point at which implementation is impractical and improvements will be limited.
Specifically, we don't have a training data corpus for any of our AI robots, enough to help them perform generalized task behaviors. So we have to go out and create them / use non training techniques, which crucially cannot leverage the existing learning / movements of humans accomplishing things.
ChatAI's training data of "generalized text on the internet" mirrors exactly what it can do right now — know a bit about everything. But there lacks computer-readable corpuses for the things that are truly useful — 1) efforts that lead to a task accomplishment and 2) better-than human efforts that lead to better-than-human output.
The key question is this: can AI reach beyond the human dataset that is currently powering it, crucially, at low(ish) cost? Or will AI always be fed training data? If we think the former, then we have to admit our algos aren't quite there yet and this iteration of AI is selling that dream.
But even with our current data-fed AI algos, we have not yet put a lot of effort into the root of the challenge - how to quickly build large sets of high quality training data. I think there can be optimization here (over a period of 10-20 years) on a similar scale of going from million dollar computer mainframes to hundred dollar laptops. If high quality training data for specialized efforts were indeed available at a low cost, then the AI revolution will effectively deliver the dream it promises - just wait for Moore's law.
The first step to solving that is an extremely polished LLM. You can see the proof of concept with SORA and other image-to-text efforts on how quality training data is created with the help of LLMs.
But of course, "LLM generated great training data" doesn't draw headlines, so it may just look like nothing is happening for a long, long time, until you see AI task bots pop up everywhere.
Long term it seems pretty inevitable to me. Maybe the current LLMs are overhyped and there will be an investment slump before the next improved algorithm but long term it's here to stay.
It's probably a bit like the early days of electical power. Some of the early gadgets were no doubt rubbish but electrical stuff was there to stay and become a normal part of the world.
It has made job seeking a pain in the ass and is leading to tools of manipulation on every side, nothing is real, everything is a grift now seeking short term gains while playing scorched earth with everything long term.
GPT-4, Claude 3 & Co. are simply too useful for certain coding tasks or to review a contract. Obviously, you need to understand you're dealing with a probabilistic being, and for many tasks it isn't the correct tool, but I use ChatGPT ~5 a day and the $20 are super well spent. Now, there's an ocean apart of me liking to use ChatGPT and the promises from Silicon Valley and Microsoft.
- AI, also known as artificial intelligence, is overhyped - AI will never be able to replicate what a human can do - AI will never replace humans - AI is a trend that will die out - AI is not really artificial intelligence, just a trick"