The psychology of getting high a lot | Hacker News Reader

The psychology of getting high a lot

nautil.us

51 pointsmaroonblazer63 comments

I used marijuana for a short time at university as a means of relieving stress. It made me feel wonderful; relaxed, less anxious in social settings, able to focus without stressful thinking, etc. No paranoia, no drawbacks at all.. except one. Stopping was like suddenly ending a really good conversation with a friend.

I stopped because I realized that I was enjoying this too much, and to continue could have harmful ramifications for myself. Something that felt that good, something I don't really know everything in it (chemicals, pesticides, etc.,) did not feel like a good thing in the long run.

It will be fascinating to see what pharmaceutical companies will do with it, which could be good or really awful for humans. Nothing is quite as addicting as happiness, especially in a pill.

I took the other route and figured it would be a good idea to be high all the time.

It's worked out pretty well over many years and now I see it much the same as coffee or sugar for mood modulation.

If anything, I wish we were allowed small amounts of cocaine/morphine like the old days, because I think those too would be useful modulators, but you can't use them all the time.

Also, happy holiday to everyone :)

Do you realise coffe has no positive effect on mood, in long term use? You have to keep drinking it, just to feel the same as non addict. Any positive effect it may have, are balanced out by negative (anxiety, sleep disturbance and stomache damage).

There is a lot of nonsense and false advertising surrounding coffe (daily dose that is officially considered safe is like 6 cups of coffe a day).

You can stay away from junk, and be naturally high. That is the normal state for an organism to be in.

As for cocaine/morphine/weed. Most world does not share your opinion, and is not ruled by pharma industry.

Are you kidding? Most of the world is high. Allmost all my Indian or Arab or African or European friends smoke weed where they come from and especially outside Europe it is very Common

Sorry but you are wrong. Only a small percentage of the population smokes weed in the places you’ve mentioned.

Now do khat.

Most of the world has huge sanctions on weed, so I wouldn't say that. Maybe you just hang out with lots of people who enjoy some nice MJ.

You sir, are wrong in every single sentence. No point breaking it down though

I thought he is right in that coffee only provides an up when you are not used to it. Once you are, you need it to hit your normal baseline. So still an up, but not a net gain anymore.

Is that not true?

As a person who had to hit 2L/day to be able to work at some point in my life, I can definitely can say that coffee tolerance and addiction is real.

The only good part is it resets in ~10 days.

That depends on how you metabolise it, which can be very different. (genetic variation of neuro-receptors, liver, whatever) For most people about a week of abstinence would do, for me it needs two. Call it 'caffeeine fasting'.

Similar with nicotine btw.(especially sense of smell!)

I think there is a strong point for you to break down your stance, if you want to be heard.

It's not like people would believe you but not someone else just because you say so; you both are strangers to me, so only facts matter really.

Imo Pharmas are interested to keep it illegal as long as possible, same as alco producers. Pharmas like something they can patent and charge money for. Alco producers like to keep their "monopoly" on "recreational high", without any bad feelings that they kill their customers. Marijuana is none of that.

I strongly believe THC/CBD are more like medicine, that allows you to boost / condition your nervous system, that has been "legal" for many thousands years and now thanks to idiots in US government and theyr racist outlook we all have to suffer.

Don't believe it's for everyone, but for some of us, it works and makes us more conscious, relaxed and allows us to enjoy life more. Most of the bad effects to me are because of the "illegal" status of it, not the herb itself.

> I strongly believe THC/CBD are more like medicine

> Don't believe it's for everyone

A prescription drug then. Pharmas and the rest of the for-profit medical world will love this. And so will the street drug market for the off-medical use.

Pharmas love things they can patent. You can't patent THC or CBD. That was the parent posters point.

They actually can. Not the molecules themselves, but a specific formulation of it, that according to their studies, is somehow better that what existed before.

Adderall is just Amphetamine, that it has been known for decades didn't stop the patent. That's because it is a specific formulation.

Janssen Pharmaceuticals managed to find a way to get a patent on ketamine with Spravato. I'm sure a clever scientist will find a way to patent some aspect of Cannabis once it's rescheduled.

I used to smoke weed quite regularly in college (had a well-supplied friend), but had to stop for two reasons. First, I felt it was making me dumb and less ambitious, and second, my body slowly stopped tolerating it. The high was still pleasant, but I'd feel like shit the next day. Then I started getting nauseous and at the end it was just two pleasant hours and then straight to the bathroom to vomit.

I haven't had any weed for 10 years now and I'm not very interested in it. Maybe an edible here and there when I'm retired, that could be nice.

A very similar thing happened to me, except it was ever intensifying stomach cramps. This is a known syndrome called Cannabinoid Hyper Emesis Syndrome. Something happens in the stomach where smoking weed chronically eventually creates some kind of chemical imbalance. The act of smoking begins to cause stomach aches that worsen with each dose. Eventually if cessation is not achieved, the cramps turn to nausea into vomiting that can become life threatening if you cannot stop smoking.

It's extremely terrible and the only known cure is to just stop smoking weed. I'm thankful for that now though because I've just been admitted to a PhD physics program and id've never made it this far while still smoking weed like i used to.

I've had something similar, but without pain, just super annoying hick-ups, during my 16tienth bday, where I've been introduced to it for the 1st time.

Later on I've known that vomiting thing, but that could be compensated by popping some glucose (half or whole 'chip' of 'Dextro Energy', or similar) right before. No problems whatsoever then, not even slighest feelings of unwellness around the stomach.

Anecdotal but a decade's worth of recreational cannabis use destroyed my body's ability to produce testosterone. If you are going to use any substance for long periods of time, make sure to get frequent labs.

TRT has mostly reversed the damage but I will need to take this for the rest of my life. My levels were always upper 500s/low 600s (590 ng - 610 ng). Then recently, two years back or so, my total testosterone dropped to below 200 ng/dl, as low as 190 ng/dl. Estradiol was very high (triple digits) as was prolactin. My point in sharing all this is that your body WILL maintain homeostasis at any cost, even if it means grossly adjusting your hormone ratios.

Be cautious with anything you put in your body.

I mean, maybe you have more background knowledge than what you're posting, but it doesn't seem to me that there's necessarily an especially strong link between your recreational cannabis usage and your testosterone levels. Particularly if you've been doing something for 8 years without any side-effects and then suddenly something drastic happens - it seems to me there are plenty of other potential explanations.

How do you know it's related?

Why do you believe your loss of testosterone production is related to cannabis?

Do you consider low-testo a problem in itself or did you find it to be the cause of a symptom you experienced?

Have you considered that you just became "old" or it's some other genetic predisposition you're not simply aware of?

Having that happen abruptly, imo its sign of something else.

Also, You're implying you were doing these tests through all the years.. why? No "normal" person does that, are you having other "preexisting conditions" as well?

Body can tolerate something until it can’t. The event doesn’t have always to be connected to “just getting old, d’uh”.

I have seen drugs destroy people’s bodies and lives. Were there other factors? Yes. Did drug use amplified the other factors? Yes. Does it mean it’s same for everyone? No.

But, the sentiment remains. Putting a mood altering substance in your body can change it in profound ways; be careful.

> The event doesn’t have always to be connected to “just getting old, d’uh”.

Maybe, but if you are describing something that naturally happens as you get older, its a reasonable question.

Correlation != causation, you/life probably did 10,000 other things to your body on top of simple aging, and absolutely nobody has any sort of idea what caused what.

There was a post on HN from a (otherwise seemingly smart) user who blamed cosmic ray(s) for heart condition his daughter developed. Even otherwise rational smart folks do tend to end up in weird mental bubbles/tunnels for lack of better words.

I bet this has a lot to do with being able to tolerate uncertainty and the unknown. Rather than accept that you don't know, you pick something that seems reasonable to you, and cannot be disproven.

THC is damaging mitochondria and damaged mitochondria creates negative loop with testosterone production… So this is to be expected from smoking…

Doesn't this study have a giant selection bias? Recruited people from a cannabis forum? What type of cannabis user actively posts on a forum dedicated to cannabis?

A survey about how motivated the users felt? I am not convinced by this data. Surely we can do better.

They also proposed to task/reward them so as to not exclusively rely on self reporting, but yeah, it’s suspect. Probably just measuring their external obligation count rather than measuring motivation

Well marijuana is still illegal in my retarded EU-member country, hopefully they'll change that eventually now that Germany legalized it too. But I did try it in Amsterdam and gave me rather severe psychosis every single time. Paranoia, hearing things, that sort of stuff. Maybe it takes time to get used to it, maybe dosage matters, maybe strain matters, didn't have time to test much that one time I visited and not inclined to do it in Romania due to the harsh penalties for the smallest possession.

But the first time I tried vodka it didn't go well either. I downed like 200ml in a blink of an eye and thought "this ain't go no effect" so downed another. Then another. And then ... came the effect. So maybe my first attempts at marijuana weren't a "glass of beer" but a "bottle of vodka" as an allegory.

"maybe dosage matters" .... rofl... YES, IT DOES!

Same as with other medicine, alchocol including. Water can kill you too, btw.

Next time try one small puff & dont keep it in you too much and see where it takes you, if nothing for 30min, try one more.

Another thing- it might be possible you already have preconditioned yourself mentally in a way that might be hard to get outside of, that'll cause anxiety even when thinking about smoking marijuana. I'd recommend trying "medicinal" first (ie. mostly CBD (ie. 20%), THC <0.5%) and then only progress to strains with higher THC content.

Also, you probably should see therapist anyways. Having psychosis is not a good sign. Most likely you have some other issues you need to work on.

"If you have problems using weed, weed is not the problem!" (c) :D

If you saw how Germany legalised it, you might not be so hopeful. It’s decriminalisation by another name.

https://allaboutberlin.com/guides/is-marijuana-legal

I'll take decriminalisation any day of the week over illegal.

Definitely! The biggest difference being that smoking in the wrong place doesn't endanger your livelihood. It just gets you fined.

Dosage and strain certainly matter but it's also possible that you're just one of those people who don't react well to weed.

If you had that reaction several times you should probably stay away from all psychedelics. Large majority of people has no such reaction.

> maybe dosage matters, maybe strain matters

Yes, absolutely. For a first timer, a single drag from a joint is enough. If it's a spliff (weed mixed with tobacco, IMO makes the taste better), then maybe two drags, and you're all set for the evening.

> So maybe my first attempts at marijuana weren't a "glass of beer" but a "bottle of vodka" as an allegory.

Uh, whoah there. I'm just gonna say, you're describing a general lack of impulse control and risk assessment here. This is a significant contraindication to inebriants of any kind.

Its not about impulse control as much as it is about lack of knowledge/experience.

(Entirely my opinion)

Its important to note that alcohol and weed have exactly opposite effect on brain: where alcohol dulls you and make things matter less, weed can make you overly focus on your thoughts, more than a sober you would consider appropriate. This can lead to paranoia, because the first whif of it sends you on a spiral where you think about it, and that usually makes you even more paranoid. It is a form of mild psychosis. "The cur" is you have to realize that while your thoughts are valid and about real things (something real made you paranoid in the first time), the magnitude of your reaction is currently being altered by a drug. This allows you to take control of your emotions/feelings and allows you to logically reason about your current mind state.

This skill you _have to_ learn to overcome paranoia/psychosis on weed, and it is much harder to effectively practice while under weed influence. But on the other side, once you do, you can practice it while sober too, and that alone improved my mental health long term.

It is a psychoactive, and with high doses you can even start seeing your vision pulsate and shapes morphing. If you were hearing things and had psychosis, you definetly had way higher dose than you should have. If you try again, give yourself 15 mins between single puffs.

Well I was aware I am intoxicated, in the same way I'm aware I am drunk. But like with drunkenness, it's not much I can do to "shake it off" as it's clear that something chemical is messing with my body and it's not just an idea or fixation which can be dismissed by free will. The good part is that weed intoxication wanes off much quicker than alcohol, having experienced that the first few times seemed almost miraculous. With alcohol and a similar level of perceived intoxication, I would have suffered for two days, a "I don't wanna live" initial hangover, followed by "I just don't feel well" second day. Weed intoxication, after 3-4 hours starts to dissipate rapidly and in half hour I'm back to normal like nothing ever happened.

Do you have any relative with a mental illness? Because if you have that in your genes, marijuana may trigger full on psychosis so better to just avoid it and other psychedelics. My gf and I smoked a lot for 2 years due to her chronic pain (half a joint almost every evening), then she experienced psychosis, had to be institutionalized for a month, was recovering for half a year and she still needs to take anti-psychotics. Her grandmother had schizophrenia so it was in her genes. We didn't know it worked like that at the time.

I'm not aware, but I do know that large amounts of alcohol tend to 'tip me over' into 'delusion of grandeur' style of thinking. I have to be especially cautious not to have money in my wallet or accessible on my card as I become overly generous in my spending. So I tend to avoid drinking at all or strictly limit the quantity, especially in a corporate setting. My friends, who know me, think I'm amusing in those situations but I prefer not to show that side of me to my boss and colleagues.

In my experience, if cannabis gives you a bad time like that you _should_ avoid it, as it's those people that I've seen go mad and never really come back. Not everyone has the same THC experience, and I'm convinced there are people for whom it's really harmful.

It's great for me though, helps with the suffering associated with chronic nerve pain.

Cannabis is only one of many different kinds of high, so the article title here is a bit ambiguous. I'm curious, when people say high, is the general expectation to default to cannabis? Before clicking, I at first thought opioids.

Yes, the assumption, at least in the United States, is cannabis - unless you're in a social circle that routinely and exclusively uses a different drug. But the assumption is 100% cannabis when it's an article posted on April 20.

oh, I didn't notice the date's relevance at all. Weird though, that the average person associates "high" with cannabis specifically. Usually I see people using "stoned"

Daily smoker here, I feel significantly more level emotionally and really enjoy a long programming session high. Work loves it too because I find it fun to accidentally put is over time, but maybe that’s just saying I love the job and balance I’ve found.

However quitting almost doesn’t feel like an option and I feel powerless to stop myself from having another joint. It’s interesting to see the reduction in self control as a side effect, it tracks with my experience.

The hard part of quitting is the first two weeks. Also, I was like you, but now that I’ve quit I understand how I thought im doing better while high, but actually wasn’t. My two cents, quit it now its not doing you good but you think it is. Also again, the hard part is the first two weeks. Lastly, music is never the same while not high that’s the worst part for me.

I don't smoke. Neither cigarette or weed. I am a 28 year old male. I have a friend who smokes maybe twice a week.

He once asked me If I would like to have one or two puff, I accepted and got high.

The friend asked me to put your favourite track. I put "Hypnotised by Coldplay".

I never experience music that way, I never knew that track has that many instruments, depths and layers. I closed my eyes and I could just visualize all the instruments playing in the space separately. It was just amazing experience. But I never tried after that.

I had a musician friend in college who would smoke a joint with us and immediately retreat into his room, put on headphones and just listen to music for two hours. Surprisingly, I (audiophile but not that much of a musician) never found it too pleasant.

My other friend an I would always fire up the Xbox, put on Forza (a car racing game) and go drifting on Fujimi Kaido (a fictional Japanese mountain route). I always found that absolutely mesmerizing, a weird combination of flow, speed and relaxation.

Don't. That's exactly how I got started: music was amazing. Anything sensual gets super resolved but after a couple of years, you need to smoke simply to have the level of enjoyment you had before you started smoking. Your decision to never try again is a wise decision.

Exactly that’s how I got started and quitting was hard. They lie when they say weed doesn’t get you addicted. Both psychologically and physically. There is a thing called Cannabinoid Hypernosis Syndrome. I got hooked and quitting was harder than I wanna admit.

I used a lot of different drugs. Mainly marihuana, xtc and cocaïne. From all the drugs i have used I think low doses of xtc felt a good combination of still be able to function and feeling happy. Smoking weed only made me dumb, unattractive and created illusional unrealistic behavior. Cocaïne is just too much. Maybe good if you are under extreme pressure at all times. But now i am sober for a while all ready. Best thing i could have done. Also much better for nearly every aspect in life. Relationships, work, health and more.

All drugs do work differently on people. I love weed, but by far the best effects are when used say 1x a week, the more the less good. That's why legalization would be great here, I can just get a single joint/edible and not be buying bigger questionable bags from random paranoid dudes on the corners of streets.

I have quite a few folks around me who simply love alcohol (with corresponding long term consequences, give it 2 decades max). It doesn't do much for me, I see dumbed down folks doing stupid shit they later regret (sometimes for rest of their lives, a real permanent dent on character).

I did most of my best long term decisions in life on weed, alone on long walks, then mulled it over weeks/months when sober, and it checked. It opens the gate of subconsciousness to me massively, and oh boy that mister has things to say and perspectives to share. I also saw near breakdown on thc edible.

What I want to say, everybody reacts differently, its normal. There is no best-fit-all setup.

Nicotine lozenges had me high all the time. I was on them every waking minute. Felt mentally sharp on them. But my anxiety went through the roof without them. A 2-week bout of bronchitis/covid helped me quit cold turkey.

Hope I never get back on it. Gen-Z has recently discovered Zyns. I shudder for them.

Don't use it if you don't want it. Your body your choice. Just don't choose for me.

This goes for all the other drugs to.

I quit, and I don't miss it. It's too strong these days, and recreational shops being everywhere makes it tacky. CBD seems like a milder alternative, but I just don't care enough.

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