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Comment by Funes- | Hacker News Reader

We don't live in democracies, but simulations of democracies. It's all about outward appearance.

Sorry, you obviously don't live in a totalitarian country.

Democracy is never ideal, it's always full of crooks, lies, hypocrisy. Especially when most people have more interesting things to do than participating in politics. But it's not even close to anything totalitarian. I've lived in both, and have the perspective.

The person above didn't claim that? It's just the difference between ideal democracy where the interests of most people are reflected in policy and US democracy (and most others, to different degrees) where choice is limited and corporate interests weigh much more heavy, it's hard to tell if it's closer to a more openly top-down form of government than it is from the ideal.

Yet the person above didn't get arrested and tortured for that comment. Or for a wrong "like" on Facebook. I'm not exaggerating, it really happens every day.

Democracy is defined by direct or indirect control of government by people, not the presence or absence of coercion or how violent that coercion is.

This is not a binary choice. Both can be present. Both can be absent. The US arguably has a degree of both.

"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

Winston S Churchill, 11 November 1947

Explain how you can have snowdens discussion and this thread in public? Doing the same critique of government policy in russia or china would get you disappeared real fast.

One possibility: You are allowed to have such discussions because these will be ineffective and forgotten within half a day while bringing about zero policy change. Most of us around the world do not know how to bring about a change in policy. Intellectual exchanges over such forums are certainly not the way.

It's funny that you mention Snowden, a person who exposed a whole lot of anti-democratic stuff going on in his own country and became a widely celebrated patriotic hero for his courageous work. I guess the people guilty of anti-democratic behavior went to justice, while Snowden himself was offered protection and a well-deserved respectable position to continue his fight for human rights. Just like other notorious human-rights activists like Manning, Swartz or Assange.

> became a widely celebrated patriotic hero for his courageous work

When leaks happened, traditional opinion polls seemed to show a 1:1 split on support vs. disapproval. Online polls seemed to show a 2:1 split, favoring support.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commentary_on_Edward_Snowden%2...

Seems like Snowden had to become a fugitive and seek asylum in a foreign nation to have his discussion. This is quite human.

It's just like how we can tell "Epstein didn't kill himself" joke online.

Because what we discussion doesn't really matter.

I live in a democracy, but my country was totalitarian less than 30 years ago.

There is a big difference.

Increasingly, the word "democracy" seems like the word "terrorist" - both words have lost any distinct meaning they used to have, because of the way they have been abused in political rhetoric.

Re. your handle: did you snag it from the Borges short story?

>Re. your handle: did you snag it from the Borges short story?

Yeah. I've read most of what he published. Even his poetry is great (El bisonte is one of my favorite poems).

Every time someone disagrees with laws passed by a democracy, this argument comes back.

Did you ever speak with someone out of tech about internet spying? I did, no normie gives a shit. This is 100% the will of the people. Just take the L for what it is and accept that this is democracy working as intended.

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