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Comment by cycomanic | Hacker News Reader

I find it interesting how nobody blinks an eyelid at the massive profits raked in by companies like Google, Facebook etc. but as soon as the ISPs that create the infrastructure that makes all this happen (and innovate massively in the process) want some piece of the cake everyone cries foul.

Now I actually strongly support net neutrality and maybe ISPs don't really need a piece of the cake, but it is still interesting how the online companies have captured most of the profits, but are also considered the good guys in his scenario.

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> but as soon as the ISPs that create the infrastructure that makes all this happen (and innovate massively in the process) want some piece of the cake everyone cries foul

I pay my ISP well over $100 a month for their service. Far more than I pay outright to Google or Meta or Apple. Why should they try to skim even more off the top?

> are also considered the good guys in his scenario.

You can have multiple bad guys. Just because one of them is the worse guy doesn't mean the other one is good.

There’s a reason for that. Neither Google nor Facebook are infrastructure providers. Infrastructure is a different business, and, since it frequently has natural monopolies, we regulate it so to provide the greatest good for the public and maximize stability and functionality. Infrastructure is an enabling foundation for competitive enterprise.

how is gcp not infrastructure?

Public infrastructure, like water, sewage, and electricity. I.e., utilities. Telecommunications is another. GCP is B2B; compute infrastructure isn’t generally consumed by the public as a whole.

Most people view ISPs as a utility provider, so it should be expected that people would be annoyed at the idea that they get to double dip in the profit.

I pay my electric company (the ones that create the infrastructure to make an ISP possible and have massively innovated in the process) the same for kWh if it’s for a lightbulb or my work laptop

Infrastructure like that is a natural monopoly - I certainly would have an easier time switching from Google than I would Comcast, the latter would require me to move or put up with 90's era internet over copper lines.

> I find it interesting how nobody blinks an eyelid at the massive profits raked in by companies like Google, Facebook etc. but as soon as the ISPs that create the infrastructure that makes all this happen (and innovate massively in the process) want some piece of the cake everyone cries foul.

The ISP did nothing to earn any of the cake beyond provide me a pipe, and I already paid for that. I'm not defending Google's profits or calling them the good guys, I'm saying my prices shouldn't change because Comcast is jealous of Facebook. If ISPs get to tax Google and Netflix, they'll just charge me more, and I don't want that. If you sell shovels, you don't get part of the gold nugget profit.

I don't think they're seen as the good guys in this scenario, but ultimately those services are what we are paying the ISP access for. Also, I don't think nobody blinks an eyelid at the profits of those companies like Facebook and Google.

Facebook, Google and the like do much much more than provide internet.

The problem with fast lanes is that it makes the internet an uneven playing ground for the distribution of services. It is completely changing the fabric of how they operate at the expense of the consumer.

It would probably be easier to root for the ISPs if they weren't a bunch of monopolistic assholes. I know that's the reason I personally root against them.

What innovations to ISPs make? I thought they largely just installed equipment from the same group of vendors.

I’m genuinely curious if anyone knows of any.

You're staring right at it:

5G --> 3GPP --> ATIS[1] --> includes every major ISP in the US

Equipment manufacturers are just one piece of a much, much bigger puzzle. Standards development towards at-scale adoption, global interoperability, etc. is just as important; consumers just see the end game of all that backend work, and to be quite frank, it's grossly underappreciated.

[1] https://www.atis.org/overview/membership/members/

Reminds me of how maintaining essential system like the banking systems are seen as cost centers and run on a tight budget, but if some young men make a webpage that barely works venture capitalists are tripping over themselves trying to shove millions into their hands.

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