Microsoft starts testing ads in the Windows 11 Start menu

Lovely! I rely on StartAllBack to make my Windows 11 work machine actually useful. At least renaming the executable works for now. Microsoft seems hellbent on making their products worse and worse. I guess this is more incentive for me to get a new job not working in a Windows shop.

I mean it isn't a coincidence. But this framing is pretty negative.

These apps broke and started crashing because they were updating the start menu. Probably related to the addition of ads.

Then they blocked these versions because they were crashing.

It doesn't seem like they are making any effort to block versions that don't cause crashes. (Other than maybe making it a bit harder to keep updating to new internal APIs)

It really doesn't seem like they are purposely breaking these tools so that more people see the ads. It is probably such a tiny market that they don't care at this point. They'll definitely ship the ads to 99.9% of users first before they worry about this unaddressed market.

There have been ads in the start menu for nearly a decade…

My standard start menu replacement was always to add a "run" folder with program shortcuts to the system path, then just "Win+R" to Run and e.g. "kp" to run KeyPass. Until Windows 10 this was super fast - no idea whether they've managed to break even the Run dialog after this.

Given that the article says that there is a toggle to hide the recommended apps, this doesn't make any sense.

Actual replacements like Start11 are not blocked. Buggy apps using undocumented apis that break with every update are being blocked.

Apple Finds Its Next Big Business: Showing Ads on Your iPhone (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2022-08-14/apple-...)

Courtesy of Jobs and Ive, I actually think Apple has pretty bad taste. When Microsoft does hardware, it's usually quite nice and unique.

>"The problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste."

Says nanny. Sorry Steve. I need computer / OS combo to serve my needs. Not to admire. In my opinion with all their flaws Windows fares better and is more versatile for what I do. And Linux runs my business.

The original quote [1] is nuanced. This claim is trivially true.

Microsoft is a company that says 'yes' to every feature request with no regard for how it comes together as a whole. "Everything and the kitchen sink" is not a bug, it is their MO. They don't shy away from it.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR8SAFRBmcU

There's something utterly amusing about posting Steve Jobs quotes under M$ critique and vice versa.

LOL

"Yes we love the ads" said no user ever.

If they had any intention of listening to user feedback they never would have started this project because the feedback is obviously going to be negative.

At the very "best" they will cherry-pick a few metrics that show that it is a "popular addition".

I'm still not sure this is simply because of leadership. MS has been pushing ads on Windows over at least 10 years. And in fact this is a pretty natural move for the product in the saturated market. You're not going to "grow" anymore by traditional user acquisition and failed to enter the mobile market, then you need to build a new segment.

This environment gives a strong incentive toward ads-based business model for the Windows division. There likely is an army of PM desperately looking for new growth opportunities and decided to put ads everywhere since this is a so obvious strategy with low risk, high ROI. Changing a single or two senior leadership can help reversing this trends, but it's not sufficient.

This is very naive thinking that all the ads came with Mikhail Parakhin. He only lead Windows for 6 months.

Windows have ads since Windows 10, 9 years ago. There was several leadership changes on Windows in those 9 years. And the ads continued every single leadership.

The reason these ads exists, it's because Microsoft can't profit anymore on Windows itself (they don't sell updates), they don't have a store with enough users/dev to monetize on it, and they don't sell enough hardware like apple to profit from it as well.

So there's only two things left for them: ads or subscription

Btw, this "ad" actually already existed on Windows 10.

Your apps being perpetually 7 years behind everything is not a great desktop experience. I’ve tried. I’m not trying again.

I use KDE and the application launcher will show software that is not installed on my device.

My clients are firms in the architecture and engineering space. Windows is the only viable platform for AutoCAD (yes, I know there is a Mac version, and yes it is shall we say "feature incomplete") or Revit (yes, I know that ArchiCAD runs on a Mac, but if you're a MechE firm and you want to land jobs you run Revit) or Tekla or Rhino. Microsoft is making it more and more painful for my clients to get their work done and get paid. My kingdom for something better, but until Linux gets reliable native support for Autodesk applications etc it's simply not a viable solution for most firms in AEC.

I just recently set up Debian with KDE on my media server after years without using the GUI, and I'm finding myself using it for light browsing now. I just forget to open my laptop.

Linux has gotten pretty friendly, even on a distro less focused on home users and features. I don't foresee installing Windows for myself again.

Do you have a local electronics shop nearby, or maybe a makerspace with some electronics enthusiast members?

Asking because there might be reasonable options for getting it functional again without too much hassle. :)

My MIL has one of the Surface Laptops, and recently brought it to me because the battery was bulging. I looked into it, and what a maintenance nightmare. One guy on youtube had a battery fail under warranty and they sent him a whole new one, and told him to just recycle the old one; apparently even Microsoft doesn't want to repair them.

They keyboard/trackpad panel is alcantara, and is glued to the bottom cover (or was until the batteries swelled). I had to cut and pry this later off. But even then, the connector for the battery requires you to remove basically all the components (speakers, heatsinks, fans, wifi card, a bunch of RF shielding that is micro-spot welded in place, the display, the motherboard. The battery connector is a pad that the back of the motherboard has contacts that mate to it.

I told my in-laws that there was a better than even chance that I'd destroy it while doing the repair, and I'd give it a shot, but they should be prepared to buy a new one. They were ready to go buy one instead of me doing the repair, but I told them I was happy to do it and went ahead and was able to get'r'done.

I guess some of that is the price of it being so thin and light. My MIL got it because she's kind of frail and wanted something super light. Which it definitely is. It's a marvel of engineering. But, ultimately, disposable.

I don't get these. Maybe because I messed with the iOS settings? Even if I type "tiktok" in full, I only get one photo (I guess a screenshot that contains it) as well as a recently accessed website that mentioned it. And the "Search App Store" button, no ad.

Ad? Unless you’re seeing something other than what I’m seeing, that’s just a search result from the app store. Apple is not charging the app owner for that.

And if you don’t want the search (aka Spotlight) to suggest apps from the App Store, you can disable that in Settings -> Siri & Search -> Content from Apple.

I have old iOS so I do not have this. Siri is suggesting only installed apps.

In which version came this change? I hope it will not come to macOS as well.

Next you will tell that settings on iOS devices are full of ads for subscription services like music or apple news.

I don’t see any ad from apple , but search results from Notes, Mails, etc.

The article calls them ads, but in the linked blog post Microsoft only calls them "recommended apps". There's a difference between the two, and the latter doesn't have to be marked as sponsored if Microsoft is coming up with the recommendation themselves.

Unless The Verge has updated the screenshot, they are in a clearly marked section Recommended

I wouldn't say it's a downgrade, but I had to run Windhawk and other mods just to make sure the start menu doesn't look like a phone's app drawer.

Oh don't worry, Microsoft has tons of ads in Windows 10... for Windows 11:

https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/11/24127497/microsoft-window...

This is literally about bringing this feature from Windows 10 to 11.

Mint is the easiest to transition to. I install that on all my elderly family's machines. Makes troubleshooting much easier.

On my personal machine, I did just switch back to Windows last year. While gaming in Linux has come quite a way, there were just too many games that are still incompatible.

It'll only truly be great if it has a slick, integrated, functional WINE/Proton/whatever experience out of the box.

Any windows user that doesn't need Photoshop or Word and has a load of regular spare time to troubleshoot rabdom problems.

I don’t. Also, calling those ads sound correct to me.

Did the app authors pay for their apps to be recommended? If so, then it's still an ad.

> Every OS does app recommendations

No. I reinstalled a new OS when Ubuntu started putting text "suggestions" in my terminal, and ads are much more nefarious in term of resource consumption and attention whoring. The only reason i got through the hoops of installing a Fdroid was the google app store ads.

Maybe the Kubuntu site?

It seems targetted towards users in the right kind of way: https://kubuntu.org/feature-tour/

It depends on the use case. Linux often works well on desktop computers without too many fancy peripherals, but I generally do not recommend Linux as a laptop OS for “normies.”

I have installed various flavors of Linux on various laptops over the years, and 100% of the time there were tough-to-diagnose issues with hardware components. With one laptop, the brightness level could not be changed. With another, installing Linux caused the battery to drain three times as fast and hibernation didn’t work properly. With another, I accidentally played music so loud that the speakers broke.

These are all things that I was able to figure out using my Google skills and general knowledge of Linux, but it is not an experience I’d recommend for a “regular person.”

Linux Mint

https://linuxmint.com/

Siblings may not understand the question; or, more likely, there isn't an answer. I have "fixed" people's old computers all my life, and for the past 15 years or so i've been doing it by installing linux or giving them an RPi. RPi isn't doable anymore, for $100 or whatever they cost now you can get a used elitedesk or something that's 3 times better in nearly every metric. I also prefer the maintenance load of a debian derived OS when i'm the person they call with issues.

But to answer, my go to is either xubuntu or lubuntu for windows users, and kubuntu or mint for everyone else. Xubuntu first and lubuntu if for some reason Xubuntu wants to play stupid games (such as on elitedesks). There is some personal preference as to what makes a good "landing page", i think xubuntu's is a little better but they're both good (x and l ubuntus). Compare that to windows.com landing page, to contrast.

But your average windows user isn't googling "which linux should i get" because generally they've never heard of or do not understand what "linux" is. they're googling "how do i fix windows" - and getting back "how to fix drafty windows" from a search engine powered by linux. It takes evangelizing, and sometimes straight chaotic good "i'll fix your PC" and installing linux on it. There goes 99.5% of all "normal" user problems!

I've been using the *nix and linux since the mid 90s, and i still don't recommend anyone try it unless they're willing to sit on their PC and learn things. Sorry, not sorry. For the facebook/gmail/cnn/twitter browsers of the world, the three i listed above are just fine.

edited to add: it's a pity that WUBI is no more (last i knew, at least) - that would be how i would evangelize it for people that had mostly empty windows machines just for browsing the web and maybe some cute games (samegame for instance).

The PopOS! installation page[0] - PopOS was the only Linux distribution that had both nvidia drivers and touchpad scrolling working out-of-the-box on my laptop.

[0] https://support.system76.com/articles/install-pop/

I tried several over the years, specifically looking for a good out of the box experience, GUI-first usage, and one that's stable over time, and after upgrades. Zorin OS fit the bill the most. I think the landing page is good as well.

https://zorin.com/os/

> How long until an adversary figures out a way to inject something nasty through the ad network? Only a matter of time. I can’t wait for the Blackhat talk.

Microsoft don’t care, they want to serve their ads, sell your data to the highest bidder and to hell with the users.

Malvertising was already bad enough at the browser level, now we gotta be concerned with the OS. Can't wait indeed..

They aren't ads like ads.

They are promoted apps from the Microsoft store.

The "mature" state of consumerism will be that you/we will see advertising everywhere and have ads forced upon us.

And if you/we object, we will be told that our desire for living ad-free is as absurd as our desire for privacy.

This is something I'm seeing a lot more now. More companies are allowing users to select Macs instead of Windows and a lot of people take them up on the offer.

But I paid for a Windows license and they're still doing it

It's a bad saying. There are, and have been for a long time, many counter-examples.

In case of television, people pay for it and they are "the product" as well. In case of Free Software, it's free, and the users are not sold at all.

Unfortunately, investors in publicly-traded companies don't reward size, they reward GROWTH. And apparently, placing ads in a space with lots of eyeballs and no existing ads looks like tempting low-hanging fruit to every organization sooner or later.

Nixos kind of bothers me, not for anything that it did wrong, but for the fact that it’s so obviously the “correct” way of doing things to me that it’s annoying that it’s not the default in every system.

Its declarative nature is so much easier to work with, and doing the tmpfs as root trick makes it more fun to experiment with the knowledge that you won’t break anything that can’t be fixed with a reboot.

I would really like to get my T9 MacBook on Nixos but I have had a lot of issues when I attempted that, and suspend is still broken.

It’s been like this for a long time. I’ll never understand why businesses would use this garbage os. Even if it’s ad free with Pro or Business editions

At least now there are options that mean there's almost no reason one would ever use Windows.

I'm more worried about these practices infesting the next round of software, currently on track to be AI tools. Microsoft's behavior needs to be a cautionary example of why open source alternatives and variety generally are so important, and we need to reject regulations and corporate maneuvering that would prevent real variety in whatever is next. Companies like microsoft have learned their lesson about not taking open source seriously and not locking in their customers enough, and they are working hard to fix their mistakes for the next time around.

Please, don't stop being mad. We need people to stay mad about this!

The enterprise versions usually aren't affected by things like these.

That’s a leap. Microsoft makes plenty of things that aren’t Windows. And let’s not conflate “literally no reason to use” with “literally no alternative for”. Microsoft is big. There are pockets that deliver value to people.

But, to be clear, I’ve not willingly used Windows since 2008.

The only issues i've had with windows 11 in six months is with an enterprise grade dual 10gbit network card, and even that isn't a windows thing - whenever i join voice chat on discord it completely nukes the network connection with a "No Resources" error from "ping.exe". Discord support threw up their hands and said "reinstall the bleeding edge version or contact the developer support directly here:"

It suffers about the same amount from my setup of dual monitors (as winten and linux) but one is 4k DP and the other FHD HDMI and the hilarity from display scaling (or DPI scaling or whatever), but other than those two thorns i haven't had any issues, and i abuse my computer. my list of available soundcards has a scroll bar on it, for instance. I read, game, and do ML inference on it whenever i use it, and it's been solid.

However, i paid next to nothing for 3 win 11 pro licenses, so my opinion is a bit biased. if i had paid $750 for those licenses (or whatever it costs, it's a free download, michael, how much could it possibly cost) i'd probably have a different opinion about the thorns i experience.

I used to run windows in a qemu VM with GPU and USB passthrough, on gentoo. I'm very used to thorns in computing.

amd 5950x, 128GB mem, nv 3090 gpu, 20TB (16+1+1+1+1 spindle/ssd).

I'm pretty sure they did include some kind of achievements and rewards system in Windows 10.

Yes, a decade+ of enshittification will provoke such a reaction.

Places that care enough are moving away from Ubuntu due to that too.

For example, just recently I expanded the supported OS list from just Ubuntu to many others:

https://github.com/getredash/setup/?tab=readme-ov-file#teste...

We've also rebuilt our Docker images to use Debian and Alpine as the base (there are a few different images), and coming up we'll probably change our baseline development platform from Ubuntu to Debian or similar (TBD).

When that's complete, Ubuntu will be just one choice among many for our users, rather than the only supported choice.