The US rich are getting second passports, citing risk of instability
cnbc.com
cnbc.com
With things looking like the GOP and a certifiable nut case about to take over the US, they want to have the option to flee before the people scammed by the GOP realized they were taken to the cleaners.
With that said, China is already on the edge, and should the US economy crash, it will take China with it then the world will follow. But I doubt any crash will happen as long as the Fed can remain fully independent of politics.
France has the highest taxation in OECD and it is internally very messy. Switzerland much less so.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89meutes_dans_les_banlieue...
2018, 2019, 2022 and 2023 are listed yes, but definitely not every year since 2005. And it’s days of insurrections or manifestations/gatherings, in specific areas, not months of quasi-insurrection across all of France.
That being said, the relationship of the citizens with the French police is very much catastrophic and getting worse, that I agree on. It’s heading down the same path as the US.
How many people in other countries have seen a car exploding near their home or a neighbor's home take fire? That happened to me in 2005 in Rennes.
Weirdly my co-workers who lived just a few kilometers away in a more wealthy suburb told me that I was exaggerating. Yet the interior minister does not publish any more statistics about burned cars...
In many towns, it's common for dealers to fight between them with Kalatchnikovs.
The US will always be a kind of a mess given our relatively (to other large countries) decentralized government and the enormous cultural diversity, but I believe this is what gives us resiliency in the long run.
Something tells me instability is not the real issue.
As many HN readers know, the flexibility of startups comes from being able to achieve similar outcomes with different mixes of time, money, and staffing to larger entities.
Just as a thought-exercise for hackers (who delight in solving problems which do not exist in the real world, especially when they involve artificial constraints), can you figure out some good ways to leave your country assuming that you have (a) almost no time, (b) almost no money, or (c) almost no chance of expecting help —or even neutrality— from strangers?
You just need 10 mins worth of googling and a regular airplane ticket to one of the many places that will perform those procedures on foreigners.
People are crossing the border every day to get crazy dangerous esthethic surgeries in Tijuana.
I'm more worried about living in a country where 50% of the citizens hate the other 50%, where the media keeps pushing everyone to hate even more. That has been the downfall of many countries. It has real potential to make life very difficult fast, especially if you have kids.
The medias (I really don't think there is a singular "media" as everyone seems to) certainly can make quite a bit of money off this situation, but I was taught as a child by a particular religion that Democrats are demons who want to kill babies. I am not exaggerating nor am I particularly young; that is to say that this is not a recent development. When the indoctrination has reached that deep, I don't believe there really is any coming back. But yes, as I say to myself many times a day now, I am so glad I don't have kids; there is vanishingly little of this world I would wish to share with them.
I used to think of the 90s as a relatively peaceful time, but now that I've met several refugees (and their descendants) from all the wars in what used to be Yugoslavia, I'm not so sure.
For them, the media were TV/radio, not internet. So totally different.
One of these two groups actively courts such extremists while the other shuns them.
Other people in the thread have mentioned tax issues, but really, as far as tax havens go Montana is right up there.
On that note, as long as SWIFT and the rest of the global system stays up, it's possible to have your investments in the US but your neighbours elsewhere.
Caribbean Citizenship-by-Investment is about $100-250k but can include spouse/children.
Various permanent residency on the path to citizenships are also relatively expensive (thousands of dollars, some paperwork); if you move there and establish presence, you go through the naturalization process, in some cases fast-tracked.
Spain has some great programs if you're from a Spanish colonial country (including Puerto Rico, apparently...); the citizenship process gets fast-tracked.
Netherlands has a special deal dating from WW2 for US citizens to get fast-tracked to NL.
Turkey has a really cheap (in fees) program -- $5k or so on top of buying real estate at market prices. I personally am not super excited about owning $400k in Turkish real estate, but it has been a good investment in even USD terms (2-3x) over the past few years, from friends who did it. The program used to be $250K buy-in; now it's $400K and potentially moving up.
I know some EU countries have nukes, but I'm not fully aware how much that protects them. Do they have enough to cause MAD?
The election is coming up in ~200 days
Depending on who you ask, this is either a huge deal, or not that big of a deal at all
What's the truth? Somewhere in between?
What's actually unstable about the country? It depends on who you ask, right? Monetary debasement? Economic inequality? Political polarization? Immigration challenges? National debt?
The US economic engine will keep chugging, and people in that position can still take advantage of it while enjoying the political stability and social freedoms elsewhere.
[0] https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/permanent... [1] https://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/fullpage/500000-green-card-...
I just don't see it happening to any degree.
Rise of far right in Germany, Netherlands, Hungary, Poland, Italy, France, ..
Which is itself in response to the bungled handling of the Syrian refugee crisis.
Not sure how you think US policy is controlled by anyone other than rich people...
If both Low and Middle were to agree the High ought be taxed, it would be to the High's advantage to stoke culture wars between Low and Middle in an effort to ensure the first coalition.
(posted before at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39826408 )
You need to come back? Better be ready for your visa to get lost five times and a random 6 hour interrogation at the border.
It's easier to get into the US on an Iranian passport than on a UK passport when you've given up American citizenship.
Article is probably focusing on 10mil+ net worths at least, but likely "UHNWI" which are 30 mil+ who have time to think about this stuff.
People are getting second passports as a fancy object, and to avoid discrimination in countries where anti-Americanism is popular.
If your assets are under 2mm, or if super liquid and thus easy to pay the exit tax, you have a pretty decent option.
Otherwise, the exit tax can be addressed on a scale of multiple years (Puerto Rico has 0% capital gains under act 60, exemption from federal under irc 933, so move to PR first, realize capital gains, have no unrealized capital gains subject to exit tax when relinquishing...)
I'm not a lawyer; not legal advice, or financial advice, entertainment purposes only.
Anyway, since we are here, where should I get a passport too?
A lot of it has to do with your personal background. I know one friend going through the process of obtaining German citizenship which is available to her due to her ancestors fleeing Nazi Germany. There's a subreddit dedicated to obtaining German citizenship here: https://old.reddit.com/r/GermanCitizenship/
Also know someone who obtained Irish citizenship due to their background, there's a subreddit for that too: https://old.reddit.com/r/IrishCitizenship/
(I'm pretty sure this is submarine advertising for Henley)
If Handmaid's Tale became reality at least many countries' asylum laws would then apply, so if you were able to get there physically the legal documents might not matter so much.
(I understand there are a few fringe Mormon communities which straddle the Canadian and Mexican borders; they might have further ideas)
You can also leave when the writing is on the wall but before such events.
> the writing is on the wall
It's an older* code sir, but it checks out.
Two useful sayings from my childhood were "run down the hawser line before the other rats", and "skate to where the puck is going to be".
In business, it's easy to find a new position when everyone else thinks your current company is hot stuff.
In sport, better to let the play come to you than always be chasing the play.
Anticipation helps in many cases: allowing one to act, not to react.
* https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16488/jewish/Ch...
I think conflating billionaires like Thiel or Schmidt with a Californian couple who sold their house plus another they bought 30 years ago as a rental property doesn't help the article.
Hence why a lot of them like moving to Southern Europe where they can live like kings getting the Californian weather on a budget once they made their wealth in the US.
I'd call that wealthy.
People living in the Hamptons aren't basically middle class and just happen to have millions of dollars to afford to live there, it's an expensive place to live and only the very wealthy can afford it. They are wealthy. Same as SF, Manhattan, etc.
If it was as you claim you'd be foolish not to move to India and have your same high standard of living for pennies on the dollar.
If that is not the case, you are failing to utilize the asset to its full potential and should be selling it to someone who can. Feeling the pinch on the cost side is the pressure for you to make that happen. Shape up or ship out, as they say.
And, should you ship out, once you do sell it then you have $1.5M to deploy somewhere where you can fully utilize the wealth. Then you will realize the 1.5M multiple to not only to your own benefit, but also society at large. Under-utilized assets harm us all.
If you have $1.5M in wealth, you are unquestionably wealthy. If you choose to forgo the income wealth can provide, thereby hurting on the cost side, that's merely a choice.
The second person has power and influence and options that the first person will never have. The first person has much more in common with someone with a median income than someone actually wealthy.