The Camorra Never Sleeps (2012) | Hacker News Reader

The Camorra Never Sleeps (2012)

vanityfair.com

47 pointshowsilly24 comments

About that time I took my niece to Rome and after the Vatican tour we went to a cafe/curio shop. Turning the corner, there was a Maserati or Lambo sedan and a guy standing next to it with the best suit I have ever seen. That was the driver. Going in, there was a guy with an even better suit. He had a giant wad of 500 Euro notes.

His job apparently was to go around and buy chocolates or flowers and launder.

Seems like good work if you can get it.

Same story very well filmed:

> Parts of the series are loosely inspired by the Scampia feud (the series was shot in the Vele di Scampia) and its main actors: Gennaro Savastano is modeled on Cosimo Di Lauro, while his father Pietro Savastano is based on the life of Paolo Di Lauro.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gomorrah_(TV_series)

Book six years before this VF piece:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gomorrah_(book)

This is from 12 years ago and has a lot of speculation/worries for what will happen next, anyone know a good update on what did happen? Edit: Looks like Cosimo Di Lauro died in prison in 2022.

Nothing. Modernity has taken its toll even on organised crime in southern Italy, while most journalists and wannabe writers specialised in narrating overexagerated chronicles of the Mafia still try to stay relevant narrating the chronicles of a giant omniscient octopus that it never was.

Di Lauro died in prison. Most of his men died or got life in prison. Even more turned snitches because, again, there's no such thing as a code in those organisations, even if the most widespread narrations want you to believe so. Today Scampia is the backdrop to Instagram reels shot by countless baby influencers who go to visit the remains of the Vele, where their favourite temporary rappers shoot their videos.

This or that leader or organization might have their rise and fall, but organized crime is stronger than ever, and spreading into ever more "legit" facades too.

Man, so true. The easiest way to verify this is to walk into the container terminal at Gioia Tauro and start opening boxes.

I am from the center of Naples, not Scampia, so don't know what happened there, but few weeks ago behind my house some camorra guys shot 90 bullets to try to kill someone, and missed him, and instead hit a passerby in the ass. New generation criminals are always drunk and high.

Between when this article was written and today, around 2018, there was a huge war in my Neighbor because some guys who commanded it in the past got out of jail, and wanted the neighbor back, but then police arrested a bunch of people and the situation is now calm, until a bunch of people will finish their jail term, and try to catch power back, it's a cycle with 10-15 years times

Neapolitan criminal cicadas

Great article.

What an article!

>The Camorra Never Sleeps

$ echo 'The Camorra Never Sleeps' | sed 's/orr/er/'

The Camera Never Sleeps

House votes to reapprove law allowing warrantless surveillance of US citizens

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/12/fisa-surveil...

As someone born and raised in the scenarios this goofy author is trying to describe, I can only say that I find this kind of romanced narrations of criminal activities laughable at best. All I read about are stereotypes and very debatable commentaries of facts they're not even fully informed on.

As someone who was born and raised in Naples, I can see where the author is coming from, probably he met some guy from Naples, and after reading some news he asked about life in Naples, and the guy just depicted it exagerating, if I can say something about my fellow neapolitans, is that they're very showmen when it comes to describe simple things

Then the author is doing this in bad faith. You don't simply call yourself a journalist, then proceed to write about a city you have no relation to, using hearsay as your primary source of truth.

This is stuff that happens all over the world, it's just - as you correctly pointed out - that Naples, often because of the way Neapolitans themselves narrate it, is depicted as the one of the wildest cities in Europe, if not the entire World. The reality is simply that it's not that bad, and it's probably more chaotic, but yet safer than, say, Milan. Yes there are still gangs trying to fight for neighbourhoods, but they're becoming a parody of themselves, and, while this makes them somehow more dangerous from time to time, I still feel way safer in Napoli's Forcella than right in front of the Duomo in Milan.

Criminal organizations like the mafia always thrive when the government is weak - and Italy's various governments of the last decades if not centuries have never been strong, neither in the sense of "the government provides security for its people", in "the government provides stability for its people" nor in "the government can actually govern". It's been clown show after clown show, on a level not much lower than the perpetually-gridlocked US Congress.

And from what we're seeing here in Europe, the US seems to head towards even lower levels of dysfunctionality, with crime running rampant in many cities, homeless encampments drug users and dealers as well as mentally ill people roaming on the street. No wonder people are saying that criminal gangs rule these cities.

Criminal organizations are a form of government in some ways, protection schemes can be viewed as similar to taxes, and criminal organizations can provide welfare in the form of patronage and corruption. Where the government is lacking, or among populations that the government ignores (such as recent immigrants), a need arises for protection from the unorganized crime, and hence criminals organize and extract money for their efforts.

I'm not saying this is good, compared to most (but not all) governments, criminal organizations tend to be more prone to violent outbursts. Accountability is reduced due to the unofficial and secretive nature of these organizations (although there are plenty of governments with low accountability). Secrecy also makes democratic practices almost impossible (although I would be interested in hearing of any exceptions). Nepotism and vulnerability to failures in new generations are common issues.

But I suppose what I am saying is similar to the sentiment "Criminal organizations like the mafia always thrive when the government is weak" - to actually reduce the influence of criminal organizations, governments must provide some level of competent protection and services, or otherwise another criminal organization will just step in whenever one is taken down.

What media are you consuming there in Europe, that parrots far right talking points from the US?

Right here on Hacker News lol, alone the situation in San Francisco yielded about one or two stories a month [1].

[1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

"As long as you stay in designated, mostly rich and gentrified, areas it's totally safe, orderly, clean, and civilized"

> And so what? You learn to duck. In his entire life only once has he had to buy back his car. Certainly the government of Italy has cost him more in taxes

The author, William Langewiesche, should really be ashamed about what they wrote: comparing the state (and all the services it provides) to the Camorra.

This is very poor and ignorant writing, from somebody that clearly hasn't spent any significant time in those places.

It's describing the attitudes and views of a person other than the author.

I came here to complain about the same thing. I found the writing of the article to be terrible. So many tortured and silly phrases. That one in particular. Without paying taxes, all you'd have is the Camorra...

Also...

> "It has been a part of life in Naples for centuries—far longer than the fragile construct called Italy has even existed..."

Fragile construct? Terrible writing.

Historically, between only being nationally united after 1861, 20 to 40s fascicm, the right vs left (and far right vs far left) infighting all the way to the "historical comprimise" era until the 80s, and the North and South divide, Italy has been quite a fragile construct...

This may not be his best article. But I have enjoyed some of the author's other writing. In particular this one about the sinking of the ferry Estonia.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2004/05/a-sea-s...

(https://archive.is/bs3y6)

Reply on news.ycombinator.com