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Comment by ryandrake | Hacker News Reader

If parents really want to set a good example, they ought to also quit their smartphones and Social Media--or at least hide it better. Kids are really good at identifying hypocrisy. When they see their parents glued to their phones and scrolling Instagram all day, after being told "Oh, don't do that, it's not good for you" they know their parents are full of shit.

And, the trouble is: Most of these adults are addicted to their smartphones and social media, too. Everyone is. I go to birthday parties with my kid, and sporting events, indoors and outdoors, and other kid activities, and the kids are for the most part jumping around having a ball, while the adults are huddled up by themselves, bathed in smartphone light, scrolling through their feeds getting their fix. Don't think this doesn't leave an impression on kids--it does.

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So much this. I notice it a lot since I only use a dumbphone, and haven't bothered setting up a new laptop since my old one died during the covid times. It means that in social situations, I'm actually on board to engage with real people, since I'm not carrying any other distractions.

I feel a distinct drain in the social energy when some of the people present have their eyes glued to their phones. It would actually be better if they weren't even there.

I think that feeling of draining comes from the fact that if you do want something from them, like asking what they're ordering for food, or if we should go to another venue, you have to put in more effort. They need to do a context switch in which they look at you blankly while you bring them up to speed on what is happening.

> When they see their parents glued to their phones and scrolling Instagram all day, after being told "Oh, don't do that, it's not good for you" they know their parents are full of shit.

Watching your parents turn into smartphone zombies should be a warning sign, maybe even something to rebel against.

Unfortunately children do tend to pick up their parents' behaviors, bad and good.

I'm not surprised that some children do becomes Luddite, just like some becomes teetotaler because of drunkard parents. Unfortunately most of them also become drunkards.

My kids watch a lot of YouTube/TikTok and playing computer games... Yet I don't. I sit in front of my PC all day for work and after work (after dinner) I also spend a ton of time in front of my PC doing things like learning how to make circuit boards, learning new programming languages, OpenSCAD (CAD) design work, and more.

I tell them they spend too much time watching videos and playing games and should "branch out" into new hobbies. Do they do this? No.

That is to say, I don't think hypocrisy has anything to do with it.

>I sit in front of my PC all day for work and after work (after dinner) I also spend a ton of time in front of my PC doing things like [...]

If they see you watching a YouTube video about circuitry or whatever, are they registering "that's an educational video about circuits" or are they just seeing the YouTube logo and thinking "Wow, $parent watches a lot of YouTube"?

Any kid is just going to register that you spend 10 (or whatever) hours a day on the computer, they aren't going to be categorizing your use into educational or not.

I rarely ever watch videos on my PC so that's definitely not a concern. I do make videos from time to time though :shrug:

Sure, YouTube was just an example. The broad point being that your kids likely aren't going to be classifying your computer time as educational/professional/leisure. They just know it's time spent on a computer.

This is tearing me apart. On one hand I believe if we blocked all the bad stuff like YT, social media, games... they would certainly be bored more easily and get into more "wholesome" activities. On the other hand, I don't know if there are negative side effects of going full authoritarian that would outweigh the benefits. For now we walk the line, limiting social media but allowing some YT and games.

One unintended consequence I noticed already with time-limiting YT, is the kid is carefully planning her YT viewing usage and ends up not branching out to crafting/educational/etc. videos because she doesn't want to run out of time for the fun stuff. So this ends up unintentionally killing the desired content.

My gut feeling is that setting an example by doing (so like what you described) and occasionally recruiting the kid for assisting (but not forcing them to participate too much) is the right way forward. We'll see I guess...

You could do a reward system, like for every 1X educational content watched they get to watch 2X of the fun stuff

I mean, it sounds like your kids are just following the example you set. They're watching you sit in front of a screen as a form of recreation and they're simply doing the same. I think it's also worth noting that your hobbies are solo activities, so even if your kids did want to connect with you in a non-screen hobby, you'd be unavailable anyways. Maybe you could make the first move and invite them to do something outside with you?

I can't tell if this comment is satire.

In case it isn't, you're spending all your time on screens and not being present with your kids.

You're parenting by example that screen time is more important than family time.

Why would they listen to you when, to them, it probably seems like you're telling them to do what you won't?

I partially understand sporting events if people does not know each other, but birthdays? Which country is this and what kind of people do you meet in this events? I ask because here in Poland behaving like this still would be seen as major insult and such people would be marked as outsiders. And this label comes with social stigma that can be transferred to child (you can forget about ever being invited to other people homes for children meetups).

Ugh as a parent I know I need to be doing this, but I'm so bad at it.

Just do it? Get off your smartphone.

It's like the people who willingly pay $15/mo for World of Warcraft and wonder why the game doesn't get any better, play for one hour and then watch Asmongold for 8 hours (I love Asmon btw).

Stop doing the things that hurt you.

Look, I basically agree with the goal and am trying myself but: Try watching the Little League World Series on YouTube twice weekly for 4 years and you will have 1% of an understanding of why this is hard.

Its addiction and FOMO, you form connections. Even if you never talk to folk, you have an instant connection if the topic is to arise in face.

However if you previously and stopped watching and the conversation comes up you don't have have the up to date information to connect in to the conversation.

So because your part of the community by whatever feed you feel part of the community. The fear of not being part, subconsciously is what drives you to keep up the habit.

Same goes for all, communities, fandoms, cults; toxic or not.

I'm going to address you because you sound like a parent as well and I want to seriously discuss the alternatives.

For three hours in the evening 5 days a week plus ~12 hours on weekends at least half of watching kids is almost as engaging as staring at a wall. Keeping them fed, entertained, alive, and healthy can be fun and engaging like rolling around or story time or singing songs, or if she wants help learning about a toy. But the rest of the time I'm just around while she plays semi-independently to make sure nothing dangerous happens and give her validation when she shows me something she did.

Are we just supposed to sit there and stare at the wall for 20 hours a week? When you try to go phone-free what do you... do?

Cook and clean? Long roasts with a side of dusting?

Highly recommend the recent book How to Raise a Healthy Gamer: End Power Struggles, Break Bad Screen Habits, and Transform Your Relationship with Your Kids [0].

It goes over many of the issues adjacent to social media usage and how to resolve them, starting with how to understand them.

[0] https://www.amazon.com/How-Raise-Healthy-Gamer-Relationship/...

Maybe when you get home, smartphones go into a box by the door. Like how you take off shoes. Then you pick it up again to go out. Maybe leave the ring tone on loud in case anything urgent is needed.

Well the author isn't doing a good job. He's complaining about social media on a thing we're only reading because of social media.

Media critics: the biggest hypocrites.

But it's a post in substack. Not an Instagram reel or tiktok video.

The downvotes are interesting to me. Apparently Hacker News readers think Hacker News isn't social media. The ratio of user generated commentary to content on this site is 1000:1.

Is Substack social media? I don't know. We can't measure (don't know) what percentage of Jon Haidt's audience came from people who heard about his books or saw him on TV appearances. He should have a dashboard showing what audience comes from Reddit, Twitter, Facebook and syndicated news (like Business Insider). Substack is social media in all the ways that matter - it wouldn't exist in the absence of Twitter and Facebook, surely, and syndicated news like Business Insider which would cease to exist in the absence of Twitter too.

This is to say that the reason media critics are hypocrites is because they're really saying, "Anything that amplifies voices or ideas I like is good, especially mine, and everything else is bad." Like yeah, sure Jon Haidt, maybe your opinion about TikTok would be different if you were a successful influencer on it. You would simply say that there are more good things than bad, and that you shouldn't throw the baby away with the bathwater with it, or whatever. Well I think Substack is just a bunch of low effort syndicated opinions, but I have the wisdom to not say we should get rid of it, or that because Substack is stupid, people reading it are stupid. It wouldn't be true, but it would be a vibe.

I'm not sure if anyone is immune to media criticism hypocrisy, even Alexandria Ocasio Cortez criticizes Facebook while in the same breadth spending millions on political advertising on it. What can we do?

Hacker News isn't social media

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