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Comment by alephnerd | Hacker News Reader

There isn't much overlap between 2/3 Wheeler EVs and EV cars in India.

3 Wheeler EVs are booming because the prices are very low and allow you start your own business by undercutting Auto Rickshaw unions. Your average auto rickshaw or e-rickshaw driver can make around $150-200/mo tax free and eligible for subsidies, making it more competitive than working at a factory ($250-300/mo but 5% income tax and not eligible for subsidies). This makes EV 3 wheelers attractive as it's an investment in a small business.

On the other hand, EV cars aren't as popular in India yet due to range anxiety. Price doesn't factor as much because the tax incentives are made to incentivize EV cars (50% tax on disel/gas cars bit 5% tax on EV) and EVs are fairly affordable (a starting model Tata Tiago EV is around $9-10k) but no one trusts EV charging infra in India, so people are delaying purchases in order to buy a premium diesel car (eg. Toyota Fortuner, Mahindra Thar), eat the tax and buy a $4-6k Renault or Maruti ICE car for $9-10k after tax, or just keeps driving their gas car. This will change in 10 years, but the future is looking Hybrid, especially because Toyota is looking at expanding in India and lobbied a drastic tax cut [0]

No one actually buys 2 wheeler EVs - you can save $1-2k more and buy a luxury 2 wheeler like a KTM Super Duke. Most electric 2 wheeler sales are driven by Ola (India's Uber/Doordash) subsidizing it's drivers and deliverers to buy an Ola manufactured 2 wheeler while working for Ola.

[0] - https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/toyota...

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> Your average auto rickshaw or e-rickshaw driver can make around $150-200/mo tax free and eligible for subsidies, making it more competitive than working at a factory ($250-300/mo but 5% income tax and not eligible for subsidies).

It’s before my morning coffee, so I’m likely missing something. How is the factory worker earning less? Are subsidies huge?

> Are subsidies huge

Yep. If you earn less that $3k a year,

1. You pay no income tax

2. You get heavily subsidized groceries (what would cost $30/mo becomes $10/mo)

3. You can buy a heavily subsidized apartment (PMAY-U)

4. Depending on the state, you can get free electricity, water, etc.

5. If you are in a semi-rural area, you can get psudeo-UBI via the MGNREGA program

With all of this, you can end up netting an additional $700-1.2k a year tax free.

Fundamentally, China and Vietnam were able to succeed at pushing people into factory work because these kinds of subsidies didn't exist, forcing people to choose between working at a factory or starve. Also, factories in China and Vietnam would build dormitories, but in India that falls foul of labor laws.

This is why most migrant workers in India are from the state of Bihar - the government in this state has been incompetent at running welfare programs, so rural poverty has not been alleviated.

>Fundamentally, China and Vietnam were able to succeed at pushing people into factory work because these kinds of subsidies didn't exist, forcing people to choose between working at a factory or starve. Also, factories in China and Vietnam would build dormitories, but in India that falls foul of labor laws.

That's dubious thinking. The hurdles to establishment of a manufacturing base are not labor shortages. The biggest issue in India is the ease of doing business[0] and the bureaucratic red tape. India ranks 136 in 190 countries in starting new businesses, among many other accolades.

[0] https://archive.doingbusiness.org/en/rankings [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24106545

No, it's not that simple. Some of the regulatory capture that exists in India is layered on by existing companies like Tata and Maruti. These companies and existing relationships make it difficult for new entrants but wouldn't make it hard for existing firms to build and staff factories as they have been doing.

EV Car Laws are a classic example of this.

The only major EV Car manufacturer in India is Tata Motors. They lobbied the Indian government to set EV Car GST at 5% instead of 50% like it is for other cars.

When Toyota India (and it's partners Maruti Suzuki and Hyundai India) started considering manufacturing Hybrids [0], Tata went on a lobbying blitz to prevent Plug-in Hybrids from getting similar tax treatment as EVs [1].

The Indian government ended up siding with Toyota [2]

Oh, btw. This entire story only happened in the past 3 months.

[0] - https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/toyota...

[1] - https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tata-m...

[2] - https://auto.hindustantimes.com/auto/cars/nitin-gadkari-bats...

Yes I'm aware sadly. Have a friend of a friend involved in the 3 wheeler EV business in India. Not going to drop names because it's a small world.

Oof. Best of luck to them. I'm curious how they differentiate themselves from the Jugaad three-wheeler manufacturers. That seems to be where a lot of the demand and growth has been from what I've seen.

> The hurdles to establishment of a manufacturing base are not labor shortages. The biggest issue in India is the ease of doing business[0] and the bureaucratic red tape. India ranks 136 in 190 countries in starting new businesses, among many other accolades

It all comes down to India's Labor Laws and Land Acquisition Laws.

No one actually follows Labor Laws in India, but Enforcement Agencies and local Politicians will use them to extract bribes. You will invariably be breaking some labor law (eg. under Indian Labor Laws, you need to provide a baby room/creche for every woman), and as such you need to pay off the Trade Unions, local ruling Politician, local opposition Politician, the district labor commissioner, the district magistrate, etc.

In India, the laws are used as a way to extract the maximum number of bribes out of you.

This is why Tamil Nadu and Gujarat do so well at manufacturing in India - the politicans in both states are equally corrupt, but the ruling parties (DMK and BJP respectively) run a One-Party State where you only pay them off, and everyone has to listen.

If you pay off your GJ BJP MLA or your TN DMK MLA, you will be free to do whatever you want - similar to how you operate in Guangdong or HCMC.

In a lot of other states in India, corruption is nowhere near as streamlined.

Is India still stuck on the Land Acquisition Act of 1894? Pakistan has been totally unable to make any changes to it, despite/because it allows for so much corruption, graft and control.

Yep.

Narendra Modi has been campaigning on radically reforming the LAA since he became Prime Minister in 2014, but he never got the supermajority needed to safely pass it.

The current 2024 election is basically being fought over this Land Reform Law [0].

The UCC, Ram Mandir, etc stuff is all a distraction from interests fighting for and against this law.

It's a good reform, but Modi isn't fighting for it out of altruism. Easier land acquisition makes it easier to manufacture mass housing under the PMAY-U program, which would basically make Singaporean style HDBs for Indians. Once that is in place, the BJP will win elections for the next 20 years, because they've provided modern housing (and the ability to get rich from graft on the way).

[0] - https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/land-reforms-included...

Changing land acquisition would be a huge boon for much more than just housing for the BJP. As you say this opens up a lot more opportunities to get rich from graft for a lot of non-housing purposes as well.

Yep! I mentioned housing specifically because PMAY-U and PMAY-G was supposed to be Modi's crowing achievement (also the easiest way to pull off graft en masse), along with UBI [0].

Food security, Housing, and UBI are the three holy grails - whichever party successfully delivers on all 3 becomes invincible for a generation, and why the BJP has been doing what it's doing.

[0] - https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2017/02/04/i...

This government's track record of passing radical reforms has been pretty poor (the Farm bills, labour reforms, GST implementation) so I am not holding my breath. It is not the supermajority that was hindering the Farm bills either - their main issue has been the lack of advance outreach to the relevant sections of society. There is no way you are going to simply pass laws like that in India without first priming the farmers / labour unions etc. first, even at acute tax payer expense. If they learnt from their mistakes then we can hope for something but their modus operandi has been to completely ignore any opposition to their policies so I will not hold my breath.

I’d say an ever bigger roadblock is societal balkanization and resulting incoherent corruption and law enforcement.

It’s not uncommon for lawsuits in India to get ‘stuck’ for decades or longer, while squatters do their thing to property without involvement from police, and the mob (as in groups of angry people) just does what it wants with no effective penalties or accountability.

India was formed by non-consensually welding together 200+ long term distinct religio-ethno-socio states, and pretending they are all one country.

In China, and to a lesser extent Vietnam, it’s a different dynamic.

If the communist party likes you, you can do whatever you want and quickly. If they don’t, good luck surviving at all. And the ethnic groups are limited and small minorities. So there is a coherent majority whose interests can be known and that can be appeased.

So if you’re in the good graces there, it’s speedy, efficient, and profitable.

India, there is no one group effectively in charge (at least anymore), and you’re constantly dealing with having to pay off or work around yet another different group that somehow was able to get themselves in a position they could force you to pay them. Often dozens in any one area.

And because the ‘Indian’ identity is relatively weak compared to their more specific ethnic/caste identity, it’s much harder to override for the ‘greater good’.

This is a very orientalist view of India.

Most states in India have a single party ruling, and it's fairly easy to understand who to be chummy with, and how to operate a JV.

The issue is swing states have competing political poles internally, which slows down the ability to operate as you need to deal with 2x the overhead.

Even in China and Vietnam you have a similar mentality, but the difference is it's all part of a single party.

Furthermore, at least in VN's case, you have the exact same problems as India if not worse. The main difference is most factories in VN end up getting built in the Red River Delta region (Hanoi-Haiphong), so there is a strong network effect.

Once you go to other cities in Vietnam (eg. Pleiku, Can Tho) you lack the kind of administration that has experience dealing with foreign investors and businesses, forcing you to have to make JVs.

India is basically a country with 26 Vietnams - some of those states have fairly decent institutional capacity, others less so.

I can’t tell if you’re agreeing with me, insulting me, or some combination of the above.

I will say, it’s a lot more than 26 Vietnams in India though, since most decent sized Cities have their own nested level of Chaos going on that likes to ignore the larger state infrastructure and is highly resistant to outside intervention. At least in most areas I’ve seen.

And that is also ignoring the Muslim/hindu/jain/sikh/etc. friction going on within each area too. And the occasional random bombings, mob ‘interactions’, etc.

Money does talk though.

I’ll also say, I’ve never been called an orientalist before - that’s cool. I guess?

India will never be a manufacturing hub because of the absurdly high land costs. India is simply uncompetitive because land acquisition eats up into your budget.

The moment any large manufacturing facility is cleared through the red tape, speculators buy up all the land in the vicinity, making the entire supply chain more expensive.

You can work on red tape and ease of doing business, but the simple reason why Indian small and medium manufacturing units never graduate to large scale is because they simply can’t acquire the land to grow.

Hence why Modi is fighting to get a supermajority in the Lok Sabha [0].

A 362+ seat range in the LS is enough to push through the LARR repeal without being negatively impacted by defections.

[0] - https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/land-reforms-included...

I mean, is the stuff they get in utility stores of acceptable quality? Pakistan got rid of them at federal level (like PDS) in the 80s after the Americans or IMF complained I think but there was a lot of hoarding and backroom dealing going on. I think certain provinces still have them.

> stuff they get in utility stores of acceptable quality

Depends on which scheme/welfare program you're using.

The ones managed by the Federal/Central Government have better QAing and because of Aadhar it's much harder to do shenanigans and steal en masse. The brands provided are also available at your local Indian grocery store [0].

State Level schemes tend to be of varying quality. Some states (eg. Himachal, Punjab, Tamil Nadu, Kerala) are able to maintain a high quality, but other states (eg. Bihar, West Bengal, Madhya Pradesh) are unable to properly execute.

The Pakistani PDS collapsed because the hoarding and backroom dealing you mentioned. It fundamentally wasn't a bad program, it just lacked the institutional infrastructure needed to prevent corruption and lossage. The same thing happened in India until Digital Public Infrastructure (DPI) like Aadhar was rolled out. With Aadhar, UPI, etc, it's easier to detect anomalous disbursements and thus root out corruption, as you have an audit trail.

Federal Schemes in India all require Aadhar/Biometric Validation. State Level Schemes don't require biometric validation, and as such can (and have) been abused.

[0] - https://www.nafedbazaar.com/

I think this paints an overly rosy picture of welfare programs. It reads like what a rich person would imagine how poor people think.

Taxes in India are computed in "slabs" of different rates. I believe everyone in India are allowed to exclude $3.5K from their annual income for computing their tax obligation. Of course, those making less that $3.5K do not pay any taxes. But those making over $3.5K do not pay any taxes for the first $3.5K of their annual income. So, there is no incentive to earn less as OP seems to suggest.

> overly rosy picture of welfare programs

I agree (I couldn't edit it by the time the limit ended)!

The bigger issue is factory work is unappealing because working 10-12 hours a day under the table earning $250-300/mo doesn't make sense for most people.

Rural and lower class life does suck (heck my dad grew up in a jhuggi), but earning money for yourself is better than being at the mercy of a factory owner who can and often holds back your salary and doesn't provide housing.

That's a major differentiator between Chinese and Indian style factories - Chinese factories provide dormitories but Indian ones can't due to some regulatory issues.

Furthermore, most well paying factories aren't established in smaller towns or non-tier 1 metros, and the kind of demographic who would be open to working at a factory doesn't want to leave their hometown to take a massive risk living as a migrant worker in Chennai or Noida.

And that's why you see the boom in e-rickshaws in Tier 3/4 metros and small towns - it's an easy way to start your own business that's paying somewhat decently, and in most states welfare disbursement is "good enough" (as in better than 5 years ago).

That said, this is a localized maxima, and major reforms are needed, because this kind of an unorganized industry is going to eventually crash due to oversaturation.

I hear that “the future is hybrid” talking point a lot lately and I think that means Toyota is successfully controlling the narrative, but that’s not the “future”, it’s the present. Hybrids just don’t benefit enough from Wright’s law to stay cost-competitive for long. Charging infrastructure will catch up, because charging infrastructure is cheap

This is a conversation about India, not the US.

The market and business environment in India is entirely different from the US.

Charging infra will eventually get built in India, but it will take 4-7 years at least.

At that point it makes sense to save a bit more money to buy a $12k Toyota or Maruti Suzuki hybrid instead of spending $9k on a Tata EV.

The Toyota and Maruti Hybrid will have a longer range, and you don't need to worry about running out of battery in a random town in the middle of nowhere in India - a country where the law and order situation is not great.

What is the price of electricity vs petrol for vehicules in India?

okay but what about $6k on an EV. There’s a point where you have to say, okay, I’ll figure out charging

The cheapest EV is the BYD Seagull at $9,700 [0], so roughly the same price as the Tata Tiago EV after tax.

[0] - https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/chinas...

for now

For anyone who doesn't ride motorcycles - a KTM Super Duke is a lunatic hooligan bike (in the best way) that barely fits within the boundaries of safe operation on the open roads of the USA. I cannot comprehend riding one on the busy streets of an Indian city. It'd be fun while it lasted, at least.

Riding anything in India is an extreme sport. That country is absolute madness.

Try crossing the road as a pedestrian in Bangalore. It's even more of an extreme sport.

One of my favorite memories was getting across the street to a restaurant with some noobs in front of one of the FAANG offices in Bangalore - high traffic times, so no way to do so on foot without a noob ending up dead.

An auto rickshaw, 15 minutes, and two different bribes to the traffic police did the trick though.

Were the bribes needed because the rick was overloaded, or because the rick went the wrong way, or both?

It was the only way to do the turns necessary to get there in 15 minutes due to heavy traffic. The traffic police were blocking them.

I was visiting our office in Delhi, (Gurgaon), And the only way to get lunch was to cross a busy highway with no pedestrian bridges, experiencing what I can only describe as a deadly vortex of entropy.

I think I can add that to my list of near death experiences for sure.

Welcome to India. Youth culture in India is obsessed with the KTM Super Duke [0]. It's the stereotypical chappri/pulingo bike (Indian version of Bad Baby type influencers).

[0] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T08LibsaHh0

2 Wheeler EV penetration is increasing in India. "2W EVs form the majority of EV sales today, accounting for 85%–90% of all EV units sold in India, followed by 4W EVs (7%–9% of sales) and 3W EVs (5%–7% of sales)." Source: https://www.bain.com/insights/india-electric-vehicle-report-....

EVs have crossed the 6% threshold of volume of all vehicles sold in India.

India's EV migration will start from 2 wheeler and 3 wheeler EVs. Public transport is already migrating to EV based. City buses have already migrated to EVs in cities like Pune and other cities are catching up.

Cars and long distance transport trucks will be last. You can read up on the EV statistics here - https://www.autocarpro.in/analysis-sales/over-34-million-evs...

I've never been to India, but I have seen (and heard, and smelled) the multitude of two-stroke-engine-powered vehicles in Southern European cities, so I can imagine having them replaced by electric versions would be a blessing...

California long ago banned 2 cycle golf carts. I used to until recently owned one. If you said they were a 100 times more polluting than a car with a catalytic converter I'd believe it. For a developing country better air quality, less noise and not needing to import oil seem like a win win win.

> the multitude of two-stroke-engine-powered vehicles in Southern European cities, so I can imagine having them replaced by electric versions

In India, the 4-stroke came in big right around the time when leaded fuel got banned. The anti-knock stuff only really worked properly on a 4-stroke, so you'll notice that it took somewhere between 2000 and 2005 to really kill the new vehicle market for 2S.

However, the sound, that is what is completely different about these - you can actually talk on your phone sitting in the electric versions, while the petrol ones need you to shout over it when it goes up a hill.

The most interesting intersection for me was the mobile app and the EV charger combo the drivers use.

In my last visit to Kerala there were plug points under some street lights which could charge these 3-wheelers at 240v at 15amps off the pole.

These guys would just be parked right under one of those, with their mobile apps open & they'll unplug only once they get a pickup location, keeping their batteries perpetually topped up when idle.

Strange... even Vespa (which is by no means a cheap scooter) had a two-stroke engine in its base model until 2017, according to https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vespa_Primavera (German version, the English one has less details). Of course, if it's not commonly available at gas stations, preparing the gasoline/oil mixture for a two-stroke engine becomes a bit of a hassle...

It's just the start prices for batteries and evs will keep coming down. So will the electricity prices as solar prices are also falling. The space is moving too fast to hold any concrete opinions economics says electric will price out ice in the next 1p years for a lot of transport

This is a Western point of view.

Already from a financial standpoint, an EV is much cheaper than a Gas Car in India (an entry level Tata EV costs $9-10k after tax, and an entry level ICE Maruti Suzuki costs around $9-11k after tax), but everyone is holding out on buying one until the charging infrastructure is actually built.

The charging network in India just doesn't exist. At most there might be 2 charging ports at a gas station, and oftentimes the station attendants just don't maintain them leading to broken chargers.

Infra enhancement is happening, but it will take 4-7 years to happen.

This is why Hybrids are becoming popular - the taxes on them got dropped to the same amount as an EV, and you won't face range anxiety as you can switch back to gas.

> At most there might be 2 charging ports at a gas station

Unless these gas stations are also 30+ minute shopping/eating destinations, the chargers ought to be places that are.

Indian urban areas are built a lot denser than the US. 30+ minutes of driving between shopping/eating destinations isn't a concern for customers in the 3 wheeler market.

Have you seen Delhi traffic?

Sure, I mean that 30+ miles of driving is not a range issue. You're spending a lot of that time stuck in traffic which in an EV 3-wheeler just means you're sipping charge.

When I said 30+ (assuming you're still using that figure in reference to my comment; if not please ignore me) I wasn't talking about distance between places, I was talking about time spent at places.

> Unless these gas stations are also 30+ minute shopping/eating destinations

They ain't

> the chargers ought to be places that are

Some are, but the maintenance issue comes up again.

> The charging network in India just doesn't exist.

Would battery swapping be a viable alternative? Obviously not swapping random batteries; but those made and mainatined by the manufacturer.

Most likely not.

Cars are the future. People prefer cars. They just can't afford them.

People drive auto-rickshaws and e-rickshaws because it's both a mode of transport AND a self run business.

The Indian gov and private sector players like Reliance, Tata, etc are investing in building an e-charging network, but it will take 4-7 years.

> Cars are the future. People prefer cars. They just can't afford them.

You just answered your own question: most people can't afford cars. And even if they could afford a car, where would you park them?

> most people can't afford cars

And it's changing rapidly. Financing is much easier and salaries have grown significantly.

30 years ago, your only choices for a car were a Maruti Suzuki 800 or an Ambassador.

20 years ago car financing started in India, and multiple private sector car manufacturers like Hyundai, Toyota, Renault, etc entered the market.

And over the past 15 years car ownership has grown from around 90 million cars to 330 million cars.

As India grows richer, people buy cars.

> where would you park them

Congested street parking. Most Indian cities have some amount of space. They aren't all tiny alleys that can barely fit people

Look. India and developing countries aren't Western Europe.

A 2 wheeler or 3 wheeler isn't seen as prestigious - a car is the aspirational image of the middle class. Doesn't matter if it's India, Vietnam, or Indonesia - this is the mentality.

What's with the gora poverty backchodi.

> 30 years ago, your only choices for a car were a Maruti Suzuki 800 or an Ambassador.

Don't forget the Fiat!!

I grew up in an India where even phones were a luxury, so I do have some background. I live in a medium-sized (Tier-2) city. There is absolutely no place to park cars. People park on busy roads and just walk away, making traffic much worse.

> What's with the gora poverty backchodi.

Maybe ask your dad? He would be about my age.

Fast search days that Tata Tiago which is in that price range can charge at 18kW, still charging at 3kW-7kW should be doable and enough at most destinations.

> $250-300/mo but 5% income tax and not eligible for subsidies

300 USD per month means ₹3,00,000 per year; remember then to take into account the Section 87A rebate, which amounts to you paying no tax if your total income is less than ₹7,00,000 (5 lakh in previous years).

Under the new tax regime, individual income up to ₹750,000 is tax free due to a combination of standard deduction and 87A.

Given that many small businesses often accept UPI payments in multiple names (husband, wife, mother etc), a small family can actually manage ₹1,500,000-3,000,000 in (legitimate) tax free income.

That is about $18-36,000.

Which is a lot in India.

2 wheelers do have their place and are well positioned imo. they have easy-to-remove batteries that counter reliance on charging infrastructure. this with enough range for an average middle class commuter in small to large towns.

the last mile transport rental market was quite ripe to complement the gig economy guys pre-pandemic but i wonder if it will recover for regular commuters in major cities to the same level.

I've noticed petrol autos marketing themselves as not CNG/LPG as an advantage, what's that about - refuelling time should it be needed? Or safety? Just curious where EVs sit in that regard because I don't remember noticing any the couple of times I've been to Delhi, and AIUI they'd have been the previous environmental step forward.

Probably so the auto drivers don't get their skull cracked by a tire iron.

Auto Rickshaw unions are VERY politically powerful. One former member has become Chief Minister (Eknath Shinde) and have played a major role in swinging elections in Delhi (INC to AAP), Karnataka (BJP to INC), and Telangana (BRS to INC).

E-Rickshaws are excluded from these unions, as most e-rickshaw drivers tend to be migrant workers from poorer areas like Bihar or Eastern UP while Auto Rickshaw drivers tend to be locals of the state.

By advertising as being petrol, that means they are part of the Auto Rickshaw unions, so you as an e-rickshaw driver or police officer know not to mess with them.

I was just there last year and they’ve started to pop up, but only really as company-provided cars (Blu I think?)

> No one actually buys 2 wheeler EVs - you can save $1-2k more and buy a luxury 2 wheeler like a KTM Super Duke

2 wheeler EV is not a rare sight in Bangalore. Probably 1 in 200 two wheelers is EV in my neighborhood.

Bangalore =/= India.

Most of Bangalore's case is because of Ola subsidizing it's drivers to buy an Ola Bike [0][1].

For people who don't know, Ola is India's indigenous Uber+Doordash competitor.

If you're price sensitive, you can always buy a used Hero Honda for around $500-1k, so cheaper than a 2 wheeler EV. If you aren't price conscious, you can buy a luxury bike like a KTM or a car.

[0] - https://m.economictimes.com/industry/renewables/electric-two...

[1] - https://yourstory.com/2024/01/ola-electric-two-wheelers-bike...

I recently had to look up what constitutes "common" vs. "rare" and I found the typical threshold to be 5%. You're only at 10% of that so I'd call it very rare.

You don't mean the Duke? The Super Duke is 21k USD, surely the cheap electric motorbikes are coming in below that.

I highly doubt your claims.

"Ola subsidizes that's why people are buying 2wheelers"

That's whats happened in USA, EU, China or anywhere else for that matter.

"No ev charging stations"

Reliance already got into the charging station business and most importantly there are startups convincing third-parties to turn their homes into charging stations which I believe is the right solution

> That's whats happened in USA, EU, China or anywhere else for that matter

Ola has explicitly stated that they will make Ola drivers start using Ola Electric e-bikes [0], and the overwhelming majority of 2 wheeler EV sales are Ola Electric bikes.

> Reliance already got into the charging station business and most importantly there are startups convincing third-parties to turn their homes into charging stations which I believe is the right solution

Most of the Jio gas stations (like the ones in my ancestral village) only add 1 or at most 2 charging stations for EV cars, and Reliance corporate doesn't provide maintenance support.

Those same startups trying to convince people make homes into charging stations simply won't succeed outside of urban areas because of the trust deficit that exists.

The future of the Indian EV sector is in Tier 3-4 metros and small towns. That is where the majority of Indian urbanization is happening, and even where most of the sale for e-rickshaws are happening.

Charging stations will eventually get built, but it's a 4-7 year process.

[0] - https://yourstory.com/2024/01/ola-electric-two-wheelers-bike...

[1] - https://yourstory.com/2024/01/ola-to-deploy-two-wheeler-evs

When there is an opportunity to make money people would not waste it. Just like in the old days people ran 1 or 2 telephone stations they will run charging stations everywhere in the near future. It's easy money to be made

The issue imo is maintenance.

The 3rd party chargers (eg. at the Jio gas stations or at that dhaba on the NH) tend to have varying levels of maintenance, as these are franchisees and installed them as way to get some free money from corporate (eg. the one in my family's ancestral village in HP - they installed it to get some free cash from Reliance, but they aren't providing any maintenance).

That said, the EV chargers at the dealerships are well maintained.

This is the same issue in the US with Tesla's Supercharger network being superior to Electrify America because the former is directly owned and managed by Tesla, whereas the latter is a franchisee model. Whenever a Tesla Supercharger goes down, Tesla will send a mechanic to fix it. Whenever an Electrify America charger goes down, it takes weeks to get repaired.

A dealership driven charging network would probably solve the issues in India, as just about every small town has 4-5 different dealerships located on major highways and roads, and it would have better QC from corporate (as well as the fact that dealerships need to maintain their own charging infra in order to sell the car).

> no one trusts EV charging infra in India

Sodium batteries is going to be a boom for India. 2x cheaper (albeit heavier), charges in 5-15 minutes.

That's why Toyota and Idemetsu Kosan announced that they should be mass producing Solid State Batteries ny 2027 at Narendra Modi's Vibrant Gujarat conference earlier this year [0] (also as a way to lobby their way into getting tax exemptions on Hybrid PEVs)

[0] - https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/toyota...

Solid state batteries are something different. Both Lithium and Sodium can be used for them - Lithium has better density, but again Sodium is cheaper. Sodium ones are still being researched, but eventually can be 2-3x energy denser than current Lithium Ion.

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