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Comment by _fat_santa | Hacker News Reader

It's for the simple reason that what "looks good" isn't what's going to get you the best results in a sport. Take "strong men" and compare them to bodybuilders. When you see a bodybuilder on stage, they look like they can pick up a car but in reality they are typically at their weakest point, as most have to get massively dehydrated before the event so they can showoff their veins in their muscles. Compare those guys to "strong men" who aren't training for looks but rather to see how much they can lift. Most of those guys look out of shape and overweight and you can't really appreciate that physique until they go off and bench 700+lbs or squat over 1,000 pounds.

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I think this is all 100% true. But I would add that what looks good is, for many sports, also what does get you the best results. Most of all combat athletes in sports with weight limits do look like fitness influencers, because they're incentivized to pack as much muscle and cardio into as small a mass as possible. Of course there are plenty of exceptions, but they are exceptions.

The same also seems true in football/soccer for reasons that I don't quite understand. It wasn't ever really my sport, and I don't get why those guys are so shredded everywhere. I'd expect to see more 'runner builds' than there seem to be. I guess the necessity for short bursts of intense strength/speed, and rolling 40 feet on the ground after somebody grazes you, changes the optimal body comp.

    The same also seems true in football/soccer for 
    reasons that I don't quite understand. It wasn't 
    ever really my sport, and I don't get why those guys 
    are so shredded everywhere.

They're not just running in straight lines. They're making all kinds of lateral cuts and contorting their body in various ways as they jockey for position with other players for contested balls, on set pieces, etc. Those things rely heavily on core abdominal strength. They also use their arms quite a bit, which is why they are not just withered vestigal appendages.

>The same also seems true in football/soccer for reasons that I don't quite understand.

Soccer players are constantly making maximum-effort sprints with very limited recovery, and they have to contort themselves into weird positions to weave around their opponents and get or keep the ball. They need leanness and power for pure acceleration, but they also need balanced muscularity to protect them against injury. They're part sprinter, part distance runner and part gymnast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlrAN8tkF2s

are soccer players really that shredded? I remember Maradona looking pretty chubby when he was still considered the world's prime soccer player.

Maradona was at his prime in the 80s, that was a very different time for sports in general, and very much football in particular. You can look at team pictures from back then and now and bodies have been way refined.

An other component is that natural talent and skill can compensate for a lot of hard work. Not all, but a lot.

There’s also a measure of, well combat is not the right word but a mix of toughness and finesse in order to trap and control the ball, and not fall over when you eat a penalty shot.

robustness, perhaps?

Good answers already one thing to add is that a runner build wouldn't prepare you for kicking power. Technique goes a long way but at the top level every tiny difference adds up and so not only are footballers doing a tonne of sprints, jumping for headers etc but they also need to generate power for shooting which benefits from mass.

In more physical leagues like the EPL having some mass is also beneficial (unless you are Messi)

> runner build wouldn't prepare you for kicking power

Visit Lumpinee sometime ;).

You'll be very surprised by the body types of winning fighters. Most of the Thai fighters have a runner bod, because of early childhood nutrition issues (most fighters come from Isaan, the poorest region of TH and started fighting as a way to make money in the very large illicit gambling scene)

And the best fighters I've trained with are all avid runners. At Woodenman, the fight team would always run 6-7 miles every morning before multiple training sessions.

Ha I train with Lumpinee winners! Point taken they do hit plenty hard and traditionally were pretty scrawny. I would argue though that their power is attained in spite of their weight and strength disadvantage. Panpayak comes to mind as a current scrawny yet powerful kicker.

Nong O told a friend he was frustrated that he only got access to modern training habits and nutrition so late into his career - he spent most his training just doing press ups for S&C

Compare that with fighters like Superbon who now do all kinds of explosive training.

The Saenchai kick off with Wonderboy was interesting - Saenchai's kick was beautiful there was almost no telegraph and it didn't look like he gave it his all but he was "only" kicking at about 47k whereas Wonderboy was maxed around 93k and Sensei Seth hit over 100k.

And that belies the physics of power - that its both technique and mass. I doubt Wonderboy or Seth's technique can hold a candle to Saenchai's.

Put it this way - would you rather eat a leg kick from Saenchai or Rico Verhoeven? Would you rather get punched by Naoya Inoue or Anthony Joshua?

Anyway comparing physiques - look at 100m sprinters vs 10k sprinters.

Justin Gatlin and Usain Bolt vs Mo Farah. That fast twitch explosive muscle tends to be bulkier... And footballers def run more like a sprinter than a long distance runner

> do look like fitness influencers

In my experience training in BJJ, Muay Thai, and Judo, the ones at the tippy top look very fit and healthy, but aren't packed muscles of Adonis or washboard abs.

And these are people who have significant win records at Lumpinee, IBJJF, Olympics, etc. Even the fighters at the qualifier UFCs matches (the ones that start 5-6 hours before the main fight) tend to look more "normal".

Though, then again, I guess it depends what your definition of "fitness influencer aesthetic" is - is it someone who concentrates on washboard abs and aesthetics or someone who's conventionally attractive but also competitive in some sport.

That said, towards the very top of the UFC and OneFC pole, some amount of aesthetic training is included due to the whole marketing "schtick".

Also, according to some of my friends and trainers who have competed in UFC, OneFC, etc - there is a bit of an issue around PEDs towards the higher end of the spectrum that has a become a bit of a problem. The USADA and the UFC's new doping agency has become very lax on testing the past few years. McGregor wasn't the only fighter who has had issues surrounding doping - he's just more prominent and inculcating a "bad boy" image.

Distances run in football are pretty short. Field is at most 120x90m. So there is lot of running during game, but distances at single time are not that long. Sprinters also look rather jagged.

Being shredded is definitely not a rule among the top football players. Case in point, Harry Kane:

https://www.reddit.com/r/coys/comments/9orbvv/kanes_dad_bod_...

Take a pro cyclist, he may look scrawny but on a bike he is going to destroy 99.99% of the population even on a bad day.

Pros optimize their bodies to win races, not followers. I wonder why this even has to be explained.

> I wonder why this even has to be explained.

I would say that it's obvious to anyone that works out or is familiar with athletics. But take someone who may not be well versed in this space and it's easy to fool someone

and in 2024 we're fatter than ever. kids want to compete in Fortnite leagues not soccer leagues...

I think your body tends to get strong where it needs to.

In high school, I spent most of my spare time riding my bike. My pants were a size or two too big in the waist so my legs would fit in.

I was great at leg press, but I could barely bench the bar. Rock climbing isn't my sport, and I swim like a brick.

> I think your body tends to get strong where it needs to.

It’s more that the human body is very good at shedding the non required. The result is the same, but the logic is different, human physiology will actively and quickly cannibalise under-utilised muscle mass as muscle mass is expensive.

That explains why my arms are flimsy!

I agree with most of that, but I feel like I can tell the difference between "strongman" and "out of shape and overweight" pretty easily.

There's buff-fat, skinny-fat, and fat-fat, and the lines aren't always super fine.

being skinny-fat sucks

I was fat fat and now extremely skinny Fat, it is bad.

I don't even look fat with my clothes on lol

I was skinny fat once, the best way to combat this is to actually put on weight and muscle. Then eventually lose the extra few pounds.

Julian wrote a great guide on this: https://www.julian.com/guide/muscle/

HN thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12618223

usually it's the "limb muscle" vs "gut fat" ratio (plus the really strong neck is usually a dead giveaway) :)

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