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Comment by antisthenes | Hacker News Reader

Undeclared trampolines? What kind of insurance is this?

I don't remember my house insurance (or medical, or any other kind really) being this detailed. I just picked rough estimates for the value of my structure and the items inside, and that was about it? There might have also been a waiver about not doing any hazardous activities like open fires or storing chemicals on the property.

It definitely wasn't this detailed.

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Hello ! I writes software that deals with Home insurances. 1. Staggering number of people are getting seriously hurt on trampolines each year, so other people can sue you (=> insurance company) for injuries. It is on your property (((. 2. Same thing with pets and "vicious" dogs breeds on your property.

In my life, I've gotten three home insurance quotes, and every single one has asked about trampolines. And I do know at least two people who have been seriously injured on trampolines, so I can't blame them: they'd be liable for accidents.

I was asked about a trampoline with two major carriers. I believe they would have been satisfied to know it was netted, similarly to how they want pools fenced.

Homeowner insurance isn't just about the liability of the damage to your home from weather elements. A major part of it is liability you have to others who may have medical or other damage associated with your property. E.g. tripping over a paving stone, tree on your land falling on a neighbor's structures, dog attacks by your dog, etc.

Last insurance quote I got asked about trampolines, playground structures, dog breed, known risks like aluminum wiring or polybutylene piping, whether all doors had deadbolts, distance from nearest fire hydrant, and probably a dozen other things like this.

After reading that, my mind is generating weird scenarios in which undeclared trampolines are causing tragedies.

Trampolines can indeed cause accidents but is that big of a risk to have one? That feels so out of place it's beyond comical.

Probably a case of trying to get something out of the information that happens to be available. Maybe they’ll also adjust your rates based when you get your roof redone or whether you park in your driveway?

It's probably about risk more than anything.

Trampoline installed well (i.e. staked down) with proper netting = who cares

Trampoline unsecured, no net = wind risk, personal injury risk, death risk

Honestly from growing up the riskiest bit was when the springs gave out from holding the material. Net or no kids are going to drag it over to the garage one day and jump from the roof onto it. Better hope the webbing the springs mount into is in good shape.

Generally yes, because the liability for injury would be on you, as the trampoline owner. Compare the probability of a guest breaking their leg when visiting your home vs if you have an unsafe trampoline. Insurers are prepared for the small risk in the former, but have not priced in the latter risk to a standard policy.

Trampolines are obscenely high risk and injuries are very common. On top of that, if a neighborhood kid comes in to your yard and breaks their leg on your trampoline, your home owners insurance is going to be involved.

Is this something we just don't worry about in Canada? Because we only pay to park at the hospital?

Possibly. Health insurance companies may want to sue the home owner insurance company to try and recoup costs.

You still have to cover the extended medical care in Canada and they are often bigger than the initial hospital stay in the most expensive cases in either country (years-long therapy, chronic injuries, etc.)

The tortable aspect (compensation for causing personal injury) must also be covered.

Probably the liability is also different? You're much more likely to be liable for some things in the US compared to other places.

In my part of Europe, if someone breaks something while making normal use of your trampoline that would be considered an accident. You would only be liable if you had grossly neglected maintenance on the thing, knew that (or would reasonably be expected to know that), and they can prove that this has caused the injury.

Possibly. Also in my country (in EU), the home insurance doesn't cover your liability for an accident like this. That would be another type of insurance you buy extra.

This is the main thing. Insurers know that the home owners are not going to file claims for their own family members. It is the ambulance chasing lawyers that target the insurance when guests are injured on your property. There have been claims against poorly maintained walkways when the ice is not removed when someone slips on your property. Much like how retail stores all now have Wet Floor signs from all the people getting "injured".

Family members are often excluded from the coverages. I know they are excluded from medpay, for example.

Yes. Growing up I saw my friend’s foot pointed the wrong direction after a “double bounce” caught his foot in the gap between the trampoline surface and the supports. We were careful kids.

Idk how any of us survived the 90s with trampolines in constant use! We would jump off them into pools, jump onto them from the roof, double bounce each other half a dozen feet in the air. I even mastered the “art” of jumping off of it and landing on the ground (from 6 feet up), rolling and popping back up.

A few of us didn’t, I guess. I don’t think they’re dangerous to ban, but I would never own one for my kids. Sorry, kids!

We also sat in the luggage area of a station wagon with 5 kids on the way to the swimming pool... That would probably get the driver arrested if you did it today.

Neat. Survivorship bias.

Trampolines break a lot of bones.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/medical-professionals/pediatrics/...

N=1 but there was a news story from a few years ago where a teen severed his spinal cord on one from landing on his head after a flip. I'm sure most of the claims are from simple orthopedic injuries with $5-$25k amounts but it only takes one paralysis claim to wipe out your risk model.

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