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Comment by TreetopPlace | Hacker News Reader

I wonder if this could be classified as an environmental crime? Microsoft are forcing to e-waste a considerable percentage of the world's computing devices, and forcing new devices to be built and consumed.

And for no reason other than to force people onto Windows 11.

Corporations MUST be held responsible for these actions. If not at the legal level then there must be divestment of Microsoft shares by investment groups.

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Yes! My desktop PC is almost 10 years old at this point and it works perfectly, I've upgraded the CPU to an i7-4790K (the best of that generation) and added some RAM (32G total) which makes it very good for most of my work and even for occasional gaming. Thankfully I don't use windows that much, but I know I can't upgrade to windows 11, so according to Microsoft I would just have to throw it away in a year or two, which is completely ridiculous.

We have the same desktops!

I still happily develop on an i7-950 with 24GB of RAM from 13 years ago. I just haven't been able to justify the minimal performance improvements from upgrading vs all the other things my family needs.

Curious, thats quite high RAM, hows the performance? Do you experience lag?

Nope, that machine has a 512GB SSD and runs just as fast as modern corporate dev spec laptops I've used with the same core count. That being said, my static analyzer would definitely benefit from a more modern CPU!

It’s probably possible to get it to work by patching the installer

I will just force my older computers onto a different OS. My wife and kids will just have to learn Linux.

Ironically this could cause the year of Linux!

Apple has already been doing this since forever.

Apple actually aren't bad at supporting older devices.

How? They arbitrarily blocked new versions of macOS from being installed on older macs (even if they are perfectly capable of running it after you install it with a workaround).

Compared to MS they basically don't care about backwards compatibility at all. For instance, good luck running most moderately old games (e.g. even from the 2010s) even on Intel macs after they stopped working because they were using any 32bit libraries. Or you can not update (even if Apple lets you) but good luck running any recent software then.

I bet you never owned an Android device. /s

Huh?

This statement does not make any sense.

It makes plenty of sense,

Tell Microsoft: Don’t leave millions of computers behind (https://pirg.org/take-action/tell-microsoft-dont-leave-milli...)

20,000 call on Microsoft to save 400 million PCs (https://pirg.org/media-center/20000-call-on-microsoft-to-sav...)

RELEASE: Microsoft extends life of Windows 10 for $1 (https://pirg.org/media-center/release-microsoft-extends-life...)

You have option to pay for extended support.

It is not like after this date all your systems are shut down forever.

Ooh, they're offering extended support to consumers now - https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/faq/windows

That's exciting.

Microsoft isn’t forcing anything to be e-waste. They’re dropping support for what will be a 10 year old OS. You’re not forced onto Windows 11.

You just won’t get support or security patches. While people should upgrade, industries will still keep w10 around for a long time, just like they do with XP, 98, NT4, etc.

You are saying "10 year old OS" like it's a bad thing.

As of 2025 we are no longer supporting our oil rig. Woops it caused a huge spill, that's not our waste

It's not a 10 year old OS unless you believe Windows 11 is a fundamentally different kernel and Win32 API version with major backwards incompatibility - which we know isn't the case.

Ostensibly this was the same deal they made with Windows XP: "We're not forcing anyone to move to Vista, we're just dropping support for XP. You don't have to upgrade if you don't want to - but of course you do want, who doesn't want to have the latest and greatest, right?"

Turned out, a lot of people accepted that deal and stayed on XP. So many that MS got increasingly upset and put up pressure by adding nag screens, etc.

I'm completely sure, should enough people here actually try and stay in Win10, they will do the same. Especially since the main motivation for Win11 seems to be additional capabilities for DRM/locking down the system, so MS has a specific motivation to get as many people as possible to switch.

> Especially since the main motivation for Win11 seems to be additional capabilities for DRM/locking down the system

That, and more opportunities to insert adverts and related stalking for personal data to sell, which you agree to in the EULA.

Seems like a way for them to turn everything into a console with all the complete control that big brother prefers.

If an enterprise computer, they'll have a dashboard for corporate IT, and if retail that dashboard will be for advertisers and 3 letter agencies.

Many people can't upgrade.

Running an unsupported and insecure OS on the internet is untenable.

Windows 10 may be a 10 year old OS but Windows 11 has only been around for 2.5 years.

Last I checked, Windows was also an end-user product and not just for industries.

There will absolutely be computers that are less than 5 years old that will go to e-waste.

When they were pushing Win10 hard it was said to be the last Windows you would need to buy, not those exact words but what they wanted people to think. So now people who bought into that who have machines Win11 won't install on (no TPM or TPM Win11 is incompatible with being the usual reason), have been bait & switched into needing new hardware or switching away from Windows, a task that, as many will gladly tell you in other contexts, is only free if using your time has no opportunity cost, and might not work well anyway due to driver issues with hardware that has no decent published specs. Not directly forcing e-waste, but certainly making it very likely to happen.

If my main home machine didn't need some replacement anyway (there is something funky happening with USB connectivity, particularly for devices needing more than negligible power) it would definitely be moving to Linux rather than being replaced, even if I do upgrade it might anyway, but I am not the norm and I don't have time to help others make the same change and support them afterwards. To suggest that MS is OK to have performed this long-term bait & switch because other options exist is disingenuous at best.

> 10 year old OS

Isn't an OS only as old as its last update? Like an online map which gets updated, the map is not considered "old" if kept updated.

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