Hacker News Reader

Comment by loudmax | Hacker News Reader

The 2024 Prius Prime has an MSRP starting around $33k. So about $8k more expensive than the hypothetical $25k Tesla, though it does have the advantage of actually existing today. It has about a 40 mile range on electric. When the battery runs out, it switches to gas, where it gets about 50mpg. Car and Driver rates it a 10/10.

I'm very pleased with my 2018 Prius Prime. It only has about a 25 mile electric range, but I have short commute to work so it works out well in my case. Most of my driving is in electric mode and the car is very responsive with quick acceleration. When the car switches to gas I'm reminded that it's a Prius, not a sports car, but it's worth it for me. I refill the tank maybe once every three or four months. It's one of the cleanest cars on the road.

View on HN

If you want economy and to save the planet, a Prius is probably the way to go for a long time.

But electric mode all the time is nice from a fun perspective. I think EVs are just great drives.

https://www.aceee.org/greener-cars

#1 on the Greener Cars list.

Running the math, its clear that ACEEE assumes you're 100% Electric. According to brief Reddit searches, it seems like Prius Prime 2024 is closer to 75% electric / 25% gasoline in practice. (You could *theoretically* stay in 100% electric mode since its just one button click... but 11-second 0-to-60 time is pretty bad, so many people prefer to be in Hybrid mode instead)

That's still quite good though. And if you've got a lot of city driving (ex: 0-to-30 times), then 100% EV mode button is probably pleasurable. But if you have a highway or two as your commute, you'll want the ICE engine part of Prius Prime to get you up to speed.

--------

Still, Prius Prime is incredibly efficient. In 100% gas mode, it still scores 64 Green Score due to its lack of rare-earth metals in its EV motors, its smaller 13.6kW-hr battery pack (less Lithium/Cobalt being mines), and far lighter weight than most EVs. And at 130+ MPGe, its going to use less electricity than most EVs (even highly efficient ones like Leaf).

So all in all, Prius Prime is likely the most environmentally friendly vehicle you can buy in practice (even after correcting ACEEE's mistake of 100% EV assumption on this vehicle).

-------

The only real downside is that most drivers don't plan to use the PHEV part, and instead focus on the Hybrid part. At which point, the Corolla Hybrid or Crown Hybrids are better vehicles.

My EV does 0-60 in 6 seconds, so I'm wondering...does the Prius just have a small electric drive train? I thought it would be the opposite (electric fast to accelerate, combustion maybe better at cruising at high speeds).

Prius's EV is very small.

Prius EV is less than 100hp, and the ICE is under 150hp. But together they combine for 220hp.

But rumor is that Prius's EV motor is battery limited, not size limited. So it makes no sense making a bigger EV motor on this vehicle, not until Toyota adds a bigger battery al least.

Got it. Using both at the same time is a boost. I hope Toyota and Honda get more serious about EVs soon. I really prefer Japanese styling and economy over the German EV I have now.

I don't think there's much to expect from Honda, really.

Toyota has bz4x at least for pure EV. But Toyota's hybrids and PHEVs are the best on the market. The EV market has a lot more competition.

I really do think that PHEV is the right answer for the majority of Americans. Honda's got great Hybrids but no PHEVs right now in the American market (Honda Insight and Clarity were both cancelled).

-------

Studies like ACEEE's "Greener Cars" show that PHEVs and Hybrids (Ex: Prius Prime, Prius, Honda Accord Hybrids) are still top10 choices for environmentalists today however.

So no "need" to go EV if you're trying to be environmentally friendly. There's still a lot of work to make EVs better for the environment. Battery chemistry is a big deal and is uneven across EV manufacturers, some chemistries like NCA are dirtier than others.

Honda has some deals with Chevy ATM that are bizarre. But I really like their ICE cars and it’s sad they aren’t bothering with EVs. An EV civic would be awesome.

I’m not worried about going green, I just prefer the EV driving experience. I know that’s a bit selfish, but many car enthusiasts after trying EVs can’t go back to ICEs, let alone hybrids.

Why is it the most environmentally friendly car when pure EVs are also practical and widely available. I fail to see how adding a fossil fuel burning motor, no matter how efficient, is anything other than worse for the environment.

ACEEE factors in the lifetime emissions of the chemistry of the battery.

Some batteries, like NCA, have worse emissions than others.

Also: the grid is mostly coal and nat. gas today. Case in point: the Hummer EV burns more fossil fuels on electricity because it weighs 4 tons.

EV doesn't make anything automatically more efficient. Only the smallest and lightest EVs, like the Leaf, have high environmental scores.

Weight had no relevance for the bulk of (most people’s?) miles. Flat ground at highest speeds, weight has zero bearing on fuel usage.

If you want fun, you want the best Horsepower:Weight, and EVs just aren't there in a lot of ways. In any case, having a battery, whether in a hybrid or not opens up regenerative braking, which is a huge win for either category.

I love driving my EV. Ya, it is heavy like a boat, but it goes zoom so much. The real problem is wearing down the tires because I keep gassing it coming off red lights, 0-25 pretty fast.

Except Toyota doesn't actually have it's shit together enough to make them in any quantity.

2022 Prius Prime sales: 5353

2022 Ferrari sales: 4922

A Ferrari rare car is not the solution to anything. Last I heard the waitlist on the Rav4 prime was years long here in Canada.

https://insideevs.com/news/676057/us-toyota-plugin-car-sales...

https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/ferrari-us-sales-figures

Regular Prius, and Corolla Hybrid / Crown Hybrid are more popular cars than Prius Prime.

PHEV is the least popular style in the USA. But they're readily available at the dealerships in my region at least.

I mean the actual Model 3 costs roughly the same as the Prius Prime. A 25k EV would look closer to something like the Nissan leaf or the Chevy volt with about 150-200 miles of range instead of 300+ and generally worse build quality.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com