The Great American Rail-Trail | Hacker News Reader

The Great American Rail-Trail

railstotrails.org

I finished the GART this summer. 69 days, ~3800 miles, started in Washington DC at the Capital Building moving East to Wast.

The difference between riding the completed sections (not dealing with auto-traffic), and the various road (dirt,gravel,asphalt,HWY) sections to connect the various trails had me in very different mental spaces - and although that may seem obvious, it was something entirely profound to experience. It really adds to the realization of how ambitious this project is, and I think solidified the worth/value I have of the endeavor being completing. (It’s estimated at something like 60% completed.)

> Toward the end of 2021, the Iowa-Illinois Memorial Bridge (I-74 Bridge) was completed, providing a new multimodal crossing of the Mississippi River between East Moline, Illinois, and Bettendorf, Iowa. Prior to this bridge completion, the Great American Rail-Trail was routed across the Government/Arsenal Bridge farther west between Rock Island, Illinois, and Davenport, Iowa. Both bridges are about the same length and accommodate trail users. Therefore, instead of choosing which bridge should be the official crossing of the Great American Rail-Trail, both bridges are shown on the route map, and trail users can choose for themselves.

Which bridge did you choose to cross the Mississippi? From photos, it looks like the bike/pedestrian path on the I-74 bridge is dramatically superior and should be the "official" crossing, but I can understand that the historical significance of the Government/Arsenal bridge keeps that on the map (it is the 2nd rebuild of the very first bridge to ever cross the Mississippi and was the subject of the lawsuit that got a country bumpkin lawyer named Abe Lincoln into the national newspapers for the first time).

I took the I-74 bridge; it lined up with my accommodations, and the ‘newness’ of it was touted as something to see/do at the time.

I can't wait for this to be completed -- definitely would be amazing to bike with the car sections.

Congrats on the accomplishments. Thats an impressive undertaking.

I've never done a long trail like that but just locally there's an incredible difference between walking out in the wilderness vs in civilization. The former is to enjoy, the latter is sometimes necessary to enable the former.

Did you do it biking the whole way? Did you rough sleep or crash at hotels/motels?

I bicycled the whole way. I mostly camped, but also did the hotel/motel thing when prudent.

That's awesome. So I'm thinking I might want to do the Washington St leg of this some time, do you remember about how long that part took?

Hard to really give a definitive answer to how long it “should” take. It really depends on your ability.

I will say the eastern Washington section was perhaps the hardest section, mostly due to the little resources that are available, the heat, the wind and exposure. (Palouse to Cascades Trail, formally the John Wayne Pioneer trail, and Iron Horse Trail)

But! the West section, on The Olympic Discovery Trail, is perhaps one of my favorite sections.

I went to WSU actually and I used to ride the Idaho-Washington bike trail all the time! Miss the scenery out there, its lovely. I've done a bit of overnight bike trips, one that was like 150 miles and on the coast, but never anything quite this long and certainly not as harsh as eastern washington. But still, might be a bucket list item for me, its probably easier than my bucket list of hiking the PCT.

Did you blog or document your experience anywhere?

I started with some idea/intention of doing so, but what I ended up with was mostly pictures, and short videos shared to social media.

… I think I may be one of those people who likes the idea of being a ‘writer’ or blogger, but lacks the enjoyment/drive of the work/time/effort it actually takes. OR I need to engage in the practice and make it a routine, create discipline, work out the kinks, before also taking on the demands of a new adventure.

I've recently watched this guy's journey, maybe something interesting for you as well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OfNePKRPGY

The travel couple Kara and Nate did the bike across America challenge and used the rail trail a bunch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ5O1FL8cTM

Love them. Support them. Completed a 6 day bike trip from Pittsburgh to Washington DC on the GAP and C&O trails back in 2012. I would start as early as I could, often breaking trail for the day (wear a bandana and sunglasses or eat spiderwebs all day). Lots of deer and blue herons to hang out with. It was very peaceful and quiet, but I mostly remember green tunnel trails for most of the trip. There are wonderful stops and vistas along the way. As you leave the paw-paw tunnel, one of my favorite views of the valley quickly pass by, the closer you get to Georgetown, the better maintained the C&O is; the more beautiful the trail becomes.

I actually rode the C&O trail a bunch of times in Scouts and with my grandparents as a child. I think these are great for any skill level, including beginners. The biggest advantage for me is the fact there are very few roads you need to ride on. Because they are typically on old railways, or canals, they are usually not steep grades (though don't let somebody tell you "it's only a 6% grade!", because it sucks going uphill for lots of miles).

You can split up the trails in to day, weekend, or week-long trips. Especially on the GAP and C&O there are plenty of camps, towns and stops along the way to support yourself on the way. On my 2012 trip a guy caught up to me and tolerated my slowness for a bit. He was planning to finish the Pgh to DC trip in 3 days.

I've been contemplated riding the Erie Canalway, but my love for biking was ruined a bit with a bad case of achilles tendonitis after my last trip.

https://gaptrail.org/ https://www.canaltrust.org/plan/co-canal-towpath/ https://eriecanalway.org/explore/cycling

I've enjoyed reading trip reports from the beautiful lunatics who complete the Pittsburgh to DC ride in under 24 hours. Here, one reports on falling asleep several times while riding: https://chrisshue.com/2020/01/21/pittsburgh-express/

The GAP trail from Pittsburg to Cumberland is especially awesome. It’s well-maintained, the trail towns are welcoming, and the scenery is fantastic. The folks who live near the trail are lucky to have it.

ive done the gap ride 4 times now and its always been a blast. we go from pittsburgh to cumberland so the last day is always such a blast with the big tunnel and 20+ miles downhill

That Frostburg-Cumberland run is the absolute best part! Makes the long climb to the Eastern Continental Divide worth it.

Doing that trip this summer, very excited! Hoping I can get my bike buddies to break camp early.

Yep, did it a couple of years ago as well. One of the best experiences I’ve had! Definitely recommend.

I recall this being very contentious when the rail banking act was enacted back in the '80s. At that time the right of way that became the Katy Trail in Missouri was in dispute but the adjacent land owners lost.

More recently and closer to home, Union Pacific abandoned part of its Valley Subdivision from Lincoln,NE to Marysville, KS and successfully railbanked the entire route. Adjacent landowners fought it to no avail. Today the trail has three segments--Lincoln to Beatrice, NE, Beatrice to the Kansas/Nebraska state line, and from the state line to Marysville, KS.

As I understand, railbanking is a way for railroads to abandon a route while protecting the right of way for possible future railroad use. In the mean time the trails make use of the right of way and maintain it.

That's what rail banking is - the railroads want to keep the property (it's somewhat valuable though weirdly shaped) but more importantly want to keep the ability to run a line (which is potentially insanely valuable, because running a line where one hasn't been before is a hell of eminent domain and negotiations).

Railbanking is a good way to let the land be used while not forcing the railroad to "pretend" it is still an active line.

IMHO, it's a good idea. Running new contiguous multi-state rail lines suffer from a host of unique problems -- not least that the more uncooperative last-link property owner holdouts are, the more their property becomes worth.

Good use case for a public-private bargain, where the public gets the utility of a trail (and potentially a functional railroad, if needed in the future) and private gets to keep the most valuable land utilization rights (ability to convert back to railroad).

One of my historical fascinations is watching the co-evolution of rail and telecommunications line networks, since both have similar needs.

> One of my historical fascinations is watching the co-evolution of rail and telecommunications line networks, since both have similar needs.

There's a lot of cross over. One history of Sprint evolved long distance service as a way to make money off Southern Pacific's internal phone services, that were mostly run in rail right of way. I've heard of specialized fiber laying train cars that trench, lay fiber, and cover it up as the car moves along the track.

Communication and transportation routes are broadly compatible.

Don't know if it's the case today, but as I recall, the rights-of-way were extremely valuable for routing fiber optic cables.

Also more recently for HVDC transmission. SOO Green and such.

https://soogreen.com/

https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights...

>routing fiber optic cables

I didn't even think about this possibility(!) -- but yes, it would make tremendous sense for fiber optic companies to route fiber optic cables along railroad tracks (both currently used and converted to other use, i.e., hiking/walking/biking paths) as the land rights are already established -- that is, there is no need to buy out homeowners/landowners en route; no need to engage in "eminent domain" lawsuits with property owners, etc., etc. -- and because the cables typically would go underground, that is, they wouldn't interfere with the natural scenery; the Nature above...

I'm sure many companies are already engaged in this pursuit -- but I like the idea of getting not just one, but multiple social value-adds from given pre-purposed tracts of land...

Anyway, an excellent observation!

Thanks for the memory jog. There is fiber optic running along the line from Marysville to Beatrice so that may have been a consideration for railbanking the line.

Yes I remember watching video interviews of folks in Missouri who said it should have reverted to them instead of being made available for a linear park.

A lot of people are not familiar with the American Discovery Trail. https://discoverytrail.org It is not as popular as the big 3 (AT, CDT, PCT).

Since I live right beside it, I've hosted many hikers and bikers crossing the US providing trail magic, bounce boxes and such. Maybe my retirement plan is walking it myself one day like https://www.greybeardadventurer.com did for the AT.

The long-distance trails are one of the things I love most about the US. Some of them are obviously much more "contiguous" than others, but I love that people are trying to create more. Here's a list of them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_long-distance_trails_i...

For non-hikers like me to learn: https://www.greenbelly.co/pages/appalachian-trail-backpackin...

- "Bounce Box - Box of supplies you ship or 'bounce' forward to pick up in your next trail town."

- "Trail Angel - Giver of Trail Magic. A volunteer who helps hikers with a place to stay in their house, a shuttle to the trail head, free food, anything."

- "Trail Magic - Given by Trail Angels. The goodies a Trail Angel offers out of goodwill."

Seems like a fun hobby

There's also a ferry operator https://www.matc.org/kennebec-river-ferry-service/ to cross the Kennebec in Maine.

I did the transamerica bike route (https://www.adventurecycling.org/routes-and-maps/adventure-c...) a few years ago. That route is mostly on roads with some trail sections. It makes for an interesting tradeoff: if you optimize for low traffic roads without worrying too much about about strictly staying on trails you can stay away from cars fairly successfully. In comparison, if you optimize for staying on trails as much as possible you may end up riding on busy roads connecting the trail segments.

There's no right answers, life's built on tradeoffs, etc.

Rails-To-Trails Conservancy's main page:

https://www.railstotrails.org/

Longest Rail-Trails in the United States

https://www.railstotrails.org/united-states/#:~:text=Longest...

FAQs about the Great American Rail-Trail:

https://www.railstotrails.org/site/greatamericanrailtrail/co...

I grew up in an area that the "TransAmerica Bicycle Trail" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TransAmerica_Bicycle_Trail) goes through. The "Bikecentennial '76" event (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikecentennial) used that route.

The only reason I know this is a tiny sign commemorating the "Bikecentennial '76" next to a tiny section of dedicated asphalted bike trail out in the middle of nowhere along a state highway route.

Every once in a while growing up I would see folks following the TransAmerica Bicycle Trail. It looked like both a lot of fun and a lot of work.

Let me also highlight the East Coast Greenway -- a similar idea. They're building a trail from Maine to Florida, 3000 miles (4828 km) long.

https://www.greenway.org/

I wouldn't quite characterize it as "building" a trail, rather they're charting a continuous trail and encouraging locals to campaign for bike infrastructure to gradually move as much of the journey as possible onto dedicated bike paths. Here's the map of their current progress: https://map.greenway.org/

This is nice, but I would have also accepted restoring disused railroad tracks and using them for passenger rail.

I realize this is in a whole different league of planning and costs and maintenance and operations, but I sure would love more and more robust rail in this country.

Not just passenger rail, but light rail.

I'd think that upgrading disused tracks to that level is cheaper than a full restoration to some level capable of supporting mainline-capable engines.

In any case, so-called interurbans were (AFAICT) the regional/intercity buses of their day.

There's a lot of devils in the details here - but yes, as a generality, interurban-style light rail can be done on far lighter-duty rails (& bridges, etc.) than even the bottom tier of "regular" railroading requires.

Though it's not just the engines that are heavy on regular RR's. And many of the costs do not scale with track weight. And running a regional/intercity transit system is seriously non-trivial, even if Santa Claus somehow gifts you with a free and magically maintenance-free rail network.

Yes, it was an incredibly extensive network before cars took over: https://urbanists.social/@straphanger/111059691532896415

Most (but not all!) of these rails to trails are not in positions to be even moderately lightly used by passenger rail.

And by being trails now, they preserve the line if it ever is needed in the future.

I was thinking the same thing. This is great for recreational bicyclists but more public transportation options would help everybody.

My grandfather donated to this project quite a bit back in the 90s and early 00's.

He passed back in '06, so I'm happy to see this project still going strong.

I live in Pittsburgh and I’d love to take the GAP from Pittsburgh to DC this summer.

I never knew it was part of such a cool network!

My friends and I did DC to Pittsburgh every couple years when I lived in Pittsburgh and it's a great gateway trip to see if you like bike camping.

Not sure about your fitness level but if you can handle a 75 mile ride and have a three day weekend in the summer you can ride from Pittsburgh to Ohiopyle, camp at the state park, spend a day doing rafting, natural water slides, Fallingwater & Kentuck Knob, etc, and then come back on the third day. (And for folks who don't like sleeping on the ground there are hotels / B&Bs there too.)

Caprock Canyons Trailway in Texas [0] follows an old FW&DC (Fort Worth and Denver City Railway) track for about 64 miles across the landscape. It goes from relatively flat terrain around Estelline through some nice, scenic canyons towards South Plains, passing through the Quitaque (pronounced kit-uh-kway) area where you can find what is I think the only surviving railroad tunnel in the state. There used to be two of them but one collapsed I think in the late 1970's or early 1980's due to the steady vibrations of trains passing along the track. That's what I heard anyway. The other tunnel is still there on the new trailway and is nesting ground for a bunch of Mexican free-tail bats.

[0] https://tpwd.texas.gov/spdest/parkinfo/maps/gis/caprock_cany...

Zoom out a little since that is focused on Caprock Canyon State Park just north of the Rails-to-Trails section of trailway.

Back in the 1980's before it was abandoned by the Burlington Northern Railroad who owned it at the time, my Dad ran trains along that route bringing grain from farms at the south end all the way back to the main line at Wichita Falls where it could be routed south to Houston or Galveston for export or distribution.

It passes through some beautiful country. I have been planning to visit that park and walk that trail for a long time. Maybe this will be the year.

I enjoy riding on the Silver Comet Trail in Georgia. It's 62 miles long and then connects to another trail in Alabama. It's really nice.

Last fall I hiked 500 miles of a Camino trail in Spain. It was a fantastic experience and really made me wish we had something similar in the U.S. This is a good start, though the trail itself is only half the picture. To replicate the Camino experience you also need the network of cheap hostels every ~10 miles and the community and safety aspects that, sadly, I suspect would be lacking in the U.S.

Does the Appalachian Trail not count?

I haven't done it myself, but everything I've seen says the AT is a completely different kind of experience. You need to (should be) in reasonably good shape, you have to carry a lot more gear (ties into the first point), there's a lot more planning and logistics to work out, and it's a much more rustic experience (literally camping every night, with a few hotel stays).

For the Camino, I started out 40 pounds overweight, I did zero physical training in preparation, I had to plan basically nothing except my flight, arrival day and departure day. I was able to do it with literally only a few weeks notice (I had never heard of it until a month prior.)

Ultimately what I'm saying is the Camino trails are much more accessible to a wide range of people, as long as they're able to fly to Europe.

ETA: I should perhaps explain that the Camino trails, or at least the most popular trail I took (the Francis) is really more of a walking trail than a hiking trail. It's mostly flat(ish) and is much closer to what's depicted in pictures posted on The Great American Rail-Trail.

Appalachian trail is pretty much wilderness unless you pop down to a town. Whereas the trail for the Camino de Santiago, at least the part that I was on, constantly sent you directly through towns.

The US basically has more options for long distance backpacks where you're mostly camping. Parts of Europe offer more options for town to town (or hut to hut) walks that are often not that strenuous and may even have luggage shuttle options. One isn't better than the other but they are different in general.

There's probably lots of stretches where you need to go more than 10 miles to hit much of anything. There certainly is on long hiking trails in the Midwest and West.

Doing a quick search, there's spots where paved roads are 30 miles apart, and lots of times it will be more than 10 miles to get to the nearest town.

The US and Canada have tons and tons of 500+ mile trails, heck tons of 1000+ mile trails.

Like 20+

What the state of places to stay on the AT these days?

Last I heard, there were still a lot of trail angel homes and on-trail campsites, but my info is ~25 years old.

Yeah I don’t think there is any comparison in how much more superior the US is when it comes to long 500-1000 mile relatively accessible trails. I can think of 10 just off the top of my head.

The Camino is vastly superior, just in a very different way.

ETA: I shouldn't say it's vastly superior, rather the Camino is a very, very different experience from the trails alluded to here, and is superior in relation to that experience.

Él camino de Santiago is actually an ancient pilmigrage route, It has some variants but the main one has a lot of traffic and it's not rare to make friends as it's a very social route.

And there a still a lot of people walking it for religious reasons (to a varying degree). It is actually a whole network of ways that spans most of central and western Europe. So you can meet pilgrim quite frequently at some "choke points".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camino_de_Santiago#/media/File...

I loved thinking about people 500 years ago walking on the same stones I was walking on, and thinking about what the exact spot I was currently standing on was like back then. What did it smell like? What did you see? Were the fields this open or were their more trees? Did you run into a lot of people?

Lots you can think about on the trail.

I’ve done a tiny piece of the Camino. It might as well be a paved greenway.

Then you did a tiny piece of it and have chosen to extrapolate from that tiny piece.

If it's not for you, that's totally OK. It IS something for many other people.

Oh it’s definitely for me, I loved it but it’s not the standard to hold up to everything else.

I love this project, but their map seems a little optimistic. I'm pretty sure there's a big gap between Washington and Idaho that's closed due to disputes with land owners and maintenance issues.

https://www.railstotrails.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Was...

Not sure if you'd call the 37.8 miles near Warden a "big gap" or not.

Right, I guess non-continuous sections might be a better description.

Maintenance issues mostly, for Eastern Washington wildland fires have taken out a number of old bridges. It wasn’t too difficult to re-route around them. (I don’t recall there being any issues with land ownership disputes)

Looking at the map it seems Wyoming is the problem child.

Wyoming was a mixed bag, There were certainly a few long sections in WY that sucked, but that was just the nature of those areas, a kind of barren no man’s land, not a lot of resources, but that also meant not much traffic.

This is what a national trail system could/should look like.

https://tctrail.ca/

The US has a set of National Scenic Trails: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Trails_System#Nationa..., and the Appalachian Trail is essentially the granddaddy of all such trails so far as I'm aware.

Is it fully off road and complete? Seems not like it from the map.

I believe the east-west connection has been established, with the north-south aspects still in progress. As for "off road", that is a can of worms. Some people say any contact with a road surface, even a crosswalk, isn't good enough. Others demand it be set back some distance from roads. Others insist that all motor vehicles be forbidden from the trail, which is never going to happen in snowmobile country. And still others don't want it touching "private" land, despite established easements.

Rails-to-trail trails are, in my limited experience (mostly in the DC-MD-northern Va region), boringly flat. I suppose out in the Rockies and Cascades they are more un-flat, although if it was originally a railroad line it's still likely to be a pretty steady climb or descent. I guess it's fortunate that not everyone agrees with me :).

Go through to the state pages and click "Download Route Analysis" to see PDFs of exactly where they're planning for it to go. It's a long-term project, putting it mildly, but good luck to them.

Now, who'll be crazy enough to combine this with the PCT and the AT into one long, N-shaped venture across the US?

I originally thought this would be nearly impossible to pull off, but the more I look at it, the more "reasonable" it seems. People have hiked the triple crown in a year and this would probably be a lot easier.

It looks like the AT meets up with the GART at Harper's Ferry, which is about the halfway point of the AT. Then the GART meets up with the PCT at Snoqualmie Pass, which is pretty close to the northern end of the trail.

You'd have to time it all around snow melting in the Cascades and trying to get to Snoqualmie Pass around the beginning of July.

A reasonable schedule (for a decently fit thru-hiker) would be to start March 1st on the AT and make it to Harper's Ferry by the end of April. Then you hop on the GART and take 3 months to walk across the ~3000 miles to meet up with the PCT at Snoqualmie pass. The 35ish miles per day would be a lot, but very doable on railroad grades and roads. If you make it to Snoqualmie Pass by July 1st you're right in the heart of the main southbound PCT thru-hiker season.

Also, if you're the kind of hiker that attempted something like this, you'd probably do the AT and PCT sections a bit faster than the timeline I presented, giving you even more time for the GART.

Fascinating! Thanks for the insight. :)

On what part of that would you want to be during the winter?

Me? None, hence "crazy". :) I just find the idea of long adventures/trails like that to be interesting, and I'm sure it's not outside the realm of possibility that someone would want to do it.

If you started the southern portion of the AT at the beginning of March (which is a fairly common start time for the AT anyway) you wouldn't have to deal with much snow for most of the journey.

An east-to-west traverse would be the only way to trek this without disappointment, wherein the reward for surviving the un-fun and mostly flat east and lower Great Lakes, upper Appalachia excepted, and the windblown monotony of the Great Plains is the Rockies and the Pacific Northwest/Cascades, which are beyond awesome.

Do it west-to-east and you've seen everything worth seeing by Wyoming, so utterly underwhelming is everything east thereof.

I once started in Washington, D.C. and only made it to Chicago before giving up from overwhelming boredom, jumping the Amtrak (train) to Denver before continuing west.

I think going east to west is the better choice too. Given the terrain, and amount of closeness of services on the Eastern sections — this lets the individual get in shape, for the harder, longer sections as you move West, but also dial-in their fueling and hydration systems.

> Do it west-to-east and you've seen everything worth seeing by Wyoming

The section in PA that follows a few rivers before climbing the eastern continental divide is quite lovely, and is followed by a similarly lovely section along the canal to DC.

Crossing the midwest by bike is never going to lovely, no matter what direction you choose, and west-to-east at least shifts the odds of tailwinds slightly in your favor.

Yeah, that's the area I meant by Upper Appalachia, that really gorgeous, hilly topography in (what I think was) eastern Pennsylvania.

I'm not sure sight-seeing is the only reason to bike tour.

I did the Katy trail last Fall (across the state of Missouri — about 6 days or so of camping/biking). It was punctuated with pretty limestone bluffs and the Missouri River but to be sure had stretches of farmer's fields, etc.

I still enjoyed the isolation, and then the small towns you rolled into. Turtles, camaraderie with fellow bikers, sense of accomplishment and adventure....

A lot to enjoy besides the views.

The prevailing winds are generally west-to-east across the US, so east-to-west means more headwinds than tailwinds.

Prevailing winds are a damned lie.

Source: bike toured a good chunk of the Trans America and Western Express route west to east. Most of it upwind.

Both ways.

I figure I'll start from where I live and then go some other place. Or vice versa

Well, DC to Chicago sounds like it would allow me to catch up on podcasts...

Indiana will do that to you.

I went west-to-east in the late 1980s.

My group was in, err, very good shape by the time we got to Kansas.

We crossed Indiana in less than 2 days of riding (Vincennes, IN to Cincinnati OH along Hwy. 50). It was exhilarating.

Had some friends (one friend and a friend of that friend really) who went east to west around then. We thought they were crazy for fighting the prevailing winds and the escalating terrain.

They went to Alaska, had some fun times with Canadian customs for not following directions. And they thought they took an excess of spare inner tubes and made it about halfway before needing to buy more.

My Indiana comment was more a “people from the Midwest will take any opportunity to make fun of Iowa, and if that’s not an option, make fun of Indiana or Wisconsin”

Indiana is much more interesting underground, IMO. There are lots of nice caves down around Bloomington and Bedford.

Southern Indiana has lots of hills and forested areas, including the Hoosier National forest. The Great American Rail-Trail mostly goes through the upper third of the state, however, so you miss that and are mostly in the corn belt section of the state. Its very flat and mostly farm land. Which is likely why the railways were built on that route anyways.

I personally can find flat farmland quite beautiful, but I can imagine biking through it for days might get dull.

This is a great use case for the Ryan Reynolds "But, why?" meme.

Not really. If you don’t get it, spend some time reading up on the project, or even the comments in this thread. Millions of people across the country utilize these cross-country trails every year. Just because not every hikes or bikes the entire thing doesn’t mean every segment isn’t used and loved to some extent.

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