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Comment by angarg12 | Hacker News Reader

Where exactly did you live? My experience is the polar opposite.

I'm visiting my native city in souther Europe after 2+ years living in the US suburbs (Seattle). When I go outside, there is a plaza full of children playing (I can hear them from my window in a 5th floor), people sitting in a bench chatting, and terraces full of patrons. In my suburbs in Seattle I never see children "going to school", I just see a School bus that stops and has some kids jumping inside. I also never see anyone around when I walk the dog, except that faithful old man going for his morning jog.

Also how is having the ability to drive everywhere more humanizing? here I just don't have to. Yesterday I had 15 minutes until a meeting, so I just went downstairs, crossed the street to pop by the supermarket, bought something and had time to spare to join the meeting. In the US it would take me that much just to drive to the closest strip mall.

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As I mentioned, my opinion is very American skewed.

I grew up in Maryland, outside the DC area. I now live in Annapolis, Maryland, in a suburb. In between I lived in California cities, and later in California suburb an hour and a half outside SF. There are about a dozen kids at the bus stop nearby, including my two kids. When I lived in a California suburb it was similar.

In the city I never saw kids. When I did it wasn't a good experience and they didn't look happy. I never saw them without parents, and when I did I wondered where they were.

In the suburbs I see kids without their parents all the time. They are climbing in trees or riding on bikes. I drive my pickup truck within 30 minutes all the time, for everything from general shopping to also picking up various house related things (lumber, mulch, whatever).

I've lived in places where everything was walkable, and lived in SF for 5 years without a car. I didn't care for it, for the reasons I mentioned. I love going into cities for day trips, but I prefer living around families and yards.

US cities are remarkably different than European cities. I personally consider the likes of Seattle, SF or San Jose a grade A shithole. NY felt a bit better, but I can see why people consider it dehumanizing if you live in Manhattan.

If you have never been abroad, I'd recommend you take a long trip to a European city and try to live like a local. If possible I'd avoid the world class metropolis that might feel a bit less homely, and target for smaller cities instead. My aim is not to change your mind about suburbs and cities, instead the experience might expand your mind and help you see why people love the lifestyle.

I've been aboard quite a lot (typically outside my country twice a year, and lived in Japan a short while), and have worked almost exclusively with Europeans the last 10 years. It's pretty much why I wrote the caveats I did in my original post. I appreciate your view, and as I mentioned I also lived in cities for quite a while, so I understand the "lifestyle". It's just not for me, and that's totally OK. Be happy I'm happy :)

German here and I think I have experienced both what you are referring to (to a lesser degree though) in a bigger city, but also what the person you replied to said.

In my city you can have both, completely depending on the neighborhood. Where I mostly grew up (<10km from here) we knew our neighbors, children could play in the 30 speed limit zone, etc.pp) and where I've been living for 15 years I hardly know or talk to my neighbors. But this is not always the case in apartment buildings, but relatively common.

So I guess what I'm saying is that we can have some of this suburban feeling (as much as I can assume it to be) inside the city (maybe not the city centre) in many cities here. We do have the real suburbs as well, but I think they're still more "communities" than just.. single homes with zero shops and bars and stuff.

And yeah, I'd totally take the small house with my own garden and being able to BBQ and invite the neighbors, if those weren't going for 1m EUR :P

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