I refuse to tolerate assholes | Hacker News Reader

I refuse to tolerate assholes

jacobian.org

13 pointsxando21 comments

After reading this thread https://github.com/torvalds/linux/pull/17#issuecomment-5654674 (especially this comment), Friend of mine sent to me this article. Maybe it's coincident maybe not. But kind of good response.

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I have to say I agree.

Sure, you might say, there are some geniuses in Open Source who are obnoxious, and we need them. But my question is this - how many geniuses who are quiet and confrontation averse have left Open Source, never to return, because of the way they were treated?

The problem is that not everybody agrees on who is the asshole. Somebody who wishes to force professionalism (ie a suit whether he wears it or nor not) on me is a bigger asshole than one who writes good code but can start a good flame war.

After reading this thread https://github.com/torvalds/linux/pull/17#issuecomment-56599... (especially this comment), Friend of mine sent to me this article. Maybe it's coincident maybe not. But kind of good response.

Wow, Linus does not come across well in that thread at all.

He is a well known asshole -- but does that mean that we should uninstall Linux?

It has been repeated several times: Linus doesn't come across well because the troll deleted some much nastier comments.

I didn't know about this part of the conversation. So in that case, where I can find original one? Any mirrors where created, that we know about?

It was discussed on HN earlier this week.[1] One thing you will note is that Linus addressed his comment to a Joseph, but none of the commenters before that are named Joseph. Joseph removed his comment. No one had a mirror but people recall the gist of the deleted comment.[2]

[1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3973816 [2] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3974008

One could argue that while assholes may write good code, for all we know they're putting off people that would write as good or even better code and not be assholes.

This especially applies to women - sure there are misogynistic jerks that are great coders, but who's to say the women they are putting off wouldn't be better in the long run?

I hear the argument that if someone is dedicated enough they'll overlook the abuse they get and do what they do anyway, but the entire premise of the overarching debate is that social skills don't really correlate with technical skills, which blows that argument out of the water - people might not have the social skills to deal with shitbags, but that doesn't mean they aren't fantastic amazing programmers.

Why is it that people care so much about how many females there is this industry? Isn't it more important how good code I write, than the fact that I have a cock between my legs and not a cunt?

Anyway social skills are pretty much just a filter between what you want to say (how many times to you think "this guy is an asshole" and don't say it) and what you actually say and part of this is the ability to pick up (and care about) what others feel and guess (and if really good) force their reactions and desires to match what you want them to do (see the end of the previous paragraph for an example).

None of that has anything to do with code. The compiler has no feelings and doesn't care about yours.

So if you want somebody in charge of the project, make sure they can deal with people (including assholes). If you want code written, accept that the people who can do it best have better things to care about than feelings.

> If you want code written, accept that the people who can do it best have better things to care about than feelings.

Are you suggesting that all the 'best coders' are arseholes? If so, do you have any evidence to back that up?

"have evidence to back that up" the cop out for things you don't agree with.

how the fuck did you even conclude that they have better things to care about than feelings means being assholes. do you have evidence to back up that's what he means?

> Why is it that people care so much about how many females there is this industry?

We want more good people at a lower labor cost. That means recruiting from groups that have the necessary abilities and are under-recruited. Girls are severely under-recruited in the quantitative fields, so it would really help to have more of them.

Maybe you could expand on that? Because it kind of sounds like you are suggesting that more women should be hired because they come cheaper. I imagine some women would take offence to suggesting the "gender wage gap" makes good business sense. I doubt that is what you meant but it sounds like it.

More people in a field drive the cost of labor down.

Because we could near double the amount of amazing stuff we could achieve if we unlock the potential of the other 50% of the population.

The irony of the post is that he is one the most prolific trolls of competing libraries to his own in Python. Asshole hater, un-asshole yourself.

Having never done open source before, I'm wondering about something: if an open source project is started, once it becomes popular and attracts community of developers and other contributors I assume the power shifts from the guy who started the project to the community. Does the person who started the project still retains his power to boot out the assholes from his project or not?

It depends. The founders tend to hang around and retain power. Larry Wall (Perl) and Guido van Rossum (Python) have kept a fair amount of control and strongly encouraged a friendly atmosphere. Debian Linux became a voting democracy and is reasonably pleasant.

Nothing stops someone from forking an open source project, making their own version. The BSD Unixes are famous for schisms, and some of the new founders are famously ... opinionated. One of benefits of open source is that obnoxious but competent people boot themselves out.

In summary: "I refuse to tolerate assholes, only if it's not steve jobs or cult figure in my cult."

(not aimed at jacob, he wrote this in a different context. but this is aimed at xando who submitted it)

I mean the name of the post alone makes him an asshole

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