Unraveling Havana syndrome: New evidence implicates the GRU's assassination unit
theins.ru
theins.ru
Russia wants to kill US diplomats (why? All of them? Some of them? One of them?) so rather than doing some botched robbery or fake suicide... they invent a "direct energy weapon" to kill them?
Or maybe they're researching this cool new direct energy weapon and they decide to test it out on... US diplomats? You'd think they could pick a less conspicuous target to test out their assassination laser beams.
Definitely withholding judgement until we learn more.
I think it's sensible to suspend judgment for now, but this is clearly one of the two main plausible contenders for an explanation of the observed phenomena.
This is a key point made in the article.
“A consensus has formed among the growing community of AHI sufferers that the U.S. government — and the CIA in particular — is hiding the full extent of what it knows about the source of Havana Syndrome. The victims offer two general hypotheses as to why. The first is that releasing the full intelligence around Russian involvement might be so shocking as to convince the American people and their representatives that Moscow has committed an act of war against the United States, thereby raising thorny questions as to how a nuclear power fond of showing off its hypersonic missiles ought to be made to pay. The second is that acknowledging Havana Syndrome is caused by a foreign adversary could put a damper on recruitment to the CIA and State Department.”
This misses a third key point. The US government has a complicated relationship with Russia. The Republican Party in particular.
not really that complicated: $$$$$
because corporations are people, and can donate. that means foreign corporations.
...and also the NRA. what was that little red-headed Russian lady's name again?
In certain instances, they opt for psychological warfare techniques, similar to those employed by the Stasi in East Germany during the 1970s and 1980s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zersetzung
Guess where Putin was stationed in the '80s during his tenure as a KGB officer?
Killing them would be crazy. This weapon, whatever it is, is perfect. Just enough doubt (by people like you and other Russian plants) to create no clear answer. EDIT: I'm not calling you a Russia shill.
The linked article and the 60 Minutes doc are literally what everyone's been waiting for. I was on the sidelines before, but not now.
"New Studies Find No Evidence of Brain Injury in Havana Syndrome Cases"
This story is from two weeks ago. So which is it?
> Dr. David Relman, a prominent scientist who has had access to the classified files involving the cases and representatives of people suffering from Havana syndrome, said the new studies were flawed. Many brain injuries are difficult to detect with scans or blood markers, he said.
If anybody finds any factual claims about this device and this supposed syndrome, buried in the innuendo, please post it. But the boldfaced faux-abstract at the top doesn't indicate any new information at all.
Yet somehow this was not known beforehand for years and somehow only became "apparent" when Russia became the public enemy.
> The article makes it sound like Russia has been at war with the US since 2014, but the US hasn't realized it, yet.
This article makes it sound like military industrial complex fat cats don't get their pockets filled with tax money fast enough, so plebs need some pushing.
Retroactively changing the past to accommodate the present day narrative is a common political trick, similarly to how Radio Free Europe's reports on Ukrainian ultranationalists challenging the monopoly on violence had suddenly become "Russian propaganda".
Another tiny step closer to the hot phase of WWIII, I guess.
These are both possibilities. The article outlines "new evidence — in the form of intercepted Russian intelligence documents, travel logs, and call metadata, along with eyewitness testimony". They don't claim to have the device itself, or direct information about it.
Next, there are some studies that find differences, and some that don't find differences between the affected and a control group. If the studies look at different markers, that is consistent with non-obvious differences being there. The absence of evidence sometimes is evidence of absence, but not always.
I think the proper response for now is to suspend judgment.
Amplifying this by the seriousness of 3 letter US agencies and whatnot and you get people medically retired. (And this is ongoing long enough that probably even some Russian agency has sent there someone to check, and then it got picked up by intelligence leaks. Or they leaked it to fuck with them.)
(And of course psychosomatic things need treatment too, and the investigations are warranted, it's not like US chanceries are the safest places in the world.)
So most likely is that there are a few true positives, and the vast majority of them are false positives. (And of course good luck telling this to anyone who works next to someone who just met a GRU operative, or works in a high-stress job and regularly feels that there are people out to get them.)
> Once back in the United States, Taylor was diagnosed with a traumatic brain injury.
>Taylor remembers confronting a tall, muscular man with a military bearing acting suspiciously across the road from the consulate residential complex. After a brief exchange with Taylor, the man responded with a strong Russian accent, shutting down the encounter and running off.
>Taylor did not hesitate in confirming that Gordienko was the suspect skulking around outside U.S. consulate housing.
Gordienko being "Egor Gordienko named as senior member of cell of Russian agents who tried to kill former Russian spy in Salisbury" https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/02/25/fourth-russian-a...
Doesn't sound like a random headache to me.
(2022 CIA: Foreign involvement was ruled out in 976 cases of the 1,000 reviewed, and ... In March 2024, the National Institutes of Health published two medical studies evaluating people reporting Havana syndrome symptoms, and found no evidence of brain injury, irregular blood biomarkers, or vocational impairment)
Things like Ménière’s disease are a PITA to image, but it’s possible.
Could be pretty dangerous if they're easy to produce.
Perhaps why this has been suppressed for as long as it has
Check out the “active denial system”.
So called "anomolous health incidents"
Are they caused by pesticides, toxins, ultrasound, microwave weapons? Are the Russians behind this?
Or maybe it's psychogenic in nature?
>in 2022, psychogenic explanations became predominant, for several reasons: no known weapons that could cause only the reported symptoms, no evidence of hostile attacks, the spread to numerous unrelated locations, and absence of damage to brain or body.[20][4][21]
> There is a reason why the Havana Act only came into force in 2021: for the past eight years, Havana Syndrome has been the subject of intense controversy. Sociologists have suggested it is little more than a mass psychogenic illness, or perhaps the outbreak of mass hysteria. Such arguments have been undercut by multiple medical studies, including one conducted by an expert panel convened by the U.S. intelligence community. The final assessment of that investigation found that AHIs had “a unique combination of core characteristics that cannot be explained by known environmental or medical conditions and could be due to external stimuli.”
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/havana-syndrome-nih-study-1.71...
US intelligence community says they are there, the NIH does not seem to agree. The NIH doesn't dispute a possible weapon, just that there is visible brain damage.
But their symptoms remind me vaguely of concussions in the NFL, and my understanding is, there is no way to find out if someone has CTE until after they're dead.
So I find it somewhat distasteful that the NIH brain scans were/are cited as a proof one way or the other.
I'm probably completely wrong on a possible hidden injury, and the "cited as proof" I'm complaining about is almost certainly that it was dryly included in a report, that they tried some scans, that didn't have any positive results: and that, of course, is the right tone and absolutely should be included in the report.
What the scans were matters too. Eg an MRI brain might be ‘normal’, but would a scan targeting the inner ear? A report from an MR looking for evidence of Meniere’s would be interesting.
And that DIA investigation was presumably part of the House Intelligence Committee's assessment that ruled there was no credible evidenced of an attack.
Clumsy moves like this are a hallmark of Russian operations, for example, the UK poisonings.
Did you even read what you responded to? He absolutely has "better reasons" for believing it.
Does he? He certainly didn't share them, and I can only comment on what he did share, which was pretty flimsy.
https://apnews.com/article/havana-syndrome-diplomat-health-b...
Otherwise there's little incentive to not find another reason to go after Russia.
Hell, Russia just brutally killed a traitor in Spain and did the opposite of trying to hide who did it. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/31/world/europe/russian-defe...
I'm curious what Spain will take any real consequences or it will just be some marginal outrage like in Canada w/ the Indian gov hit job, then just kind of falling out of the news cycle and everyone forgets.
Think about if you'd fund a major new oil project. Most don't get going for 5-10 years, meanwhile there is an army of investment and forthcoming techs in EV batteries and perovskites in solar.
A war is big money. Yeah, it's not the shadow corporation's money, but the Washington people do some math too, it will bring temporary high gas prices and war isn't popular. It's why all the "invade Iran!!!" stories have fallen flat in the last 4-5 years, they get laughed out of the building.
Your argument is missing how important oil price stability is to fuel consumer and industrial consumption.
When the value of oil collapses, and it will collapse: when not if, what replaced that? Batteries?
In the near future it is likely that sodium and sulfur will be the fundamental ingredients of a battery 2x the density of todays. So there won't be nickel, cobalt or even lithium holding up EV scaling.
Solar and wind isn't a shippable substance. Perovskites solar panels will likely be manufacturable practically anywhere.
Energy/oil being intimately tied with economic and economic output made for a stable cross-cultural currency.
Likely we will simply move back to food.
Compare this to the Salisbury poisonings, where a bunch of Brits got caught up, the target was an intelligence asset, and standing up to Russia plays very well with the electorate… there was a coordinated, significant, non-military response across several allies
>significant
?
https://goodlawproject.org/revealed-the-tories-are-still-rec...
What would you have considered to be a significant and proportionate non-military response?
However, after multiple UK citizens were harmed on UK soil calling that response "significant" anything is frankly a joke.
As I already said, personally I am afraid that we're beyond the point where any non-military response would be proportionate, but that is not what my initial comment was about.
Given Russia already does that, is this, this doesn’t seem a massive escalation.
It does seem, and not too unrealistically so, a daunting prospect that one could theoretically have their melon remotely roasted if its innerds or deeds defied the right wrong lofty authority -- a slightly more deleterious variation of Van Eckery, or worse.
Improbable perhaps, but shirtainly nay impossible.
Remember this? https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/new-york-x...
Edit:
-∞ fucktards
Havana syndrome is almost a 10 years old meme, but since we are at war with Russia, let's randomly rope in GRU, totally coincidently.
Not that the modern caring sharing Russians who tried to bring peace to Bucha and got awards for it would do such a thing.
Evil Russians using wi-fi frequencies.
> Bucha
The one where they were totally shooting themselves with artillery (according to the Guardian) and executed people who were collaborating with them (white armbands)?
Uh-huh, sure.