Comment by Delk | Hacker News Reader

Comment by Delk | Hacker News Reader

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I don't think state actors would care one bit about being assholes. Organized crime black hats probably wouldn't either.

The original maintainer has said in the past, before Jia Tan's increased involvement and stepping up as a maintainer, that he couldn't put as much into the project due to mental health and other reasons [1]. Seems to fit possibility number one rather well.

If you suspect that Lasse Collin was somehow in it from the start, that'd mean the actor orchestrated the whole thing about mental health and not being able to keep up with sole maintainership. Why would they even do that if they had the project under their control already?

Of course we don't know what's really been happening with the project recently, or who's behind the backdoor and how. But IMO creating suspicions about the original maintainer's motives based entirely on speculation is also a bit assholey.

edit: [1] https://www.mail-archive.com/xz-devel@tukaani.org/msg00567.h...

> Why would they even do that

More layers of obfuscation. For example in order to be able to attribute the backdoor to a different party.

It is of course also possible that Lasse Collins is a nice real person who just has not been able to review this. Maybe he is too ill,or has to care for an ill spouse, or perhaps he is not even alive any more. Who knows him as a person (not just an account name) and knows how he is doing?

That is kinda crazy - state actors don't need to care about that level of obfuscation. From a state's perspective the situation here would be simple - hire a smart & patriotic programmer to spend ~1+ years maintaining an important package, then they slip a backdoor in. There isn't any point in making it more complicated than that.

They don't even need plausible deniability, groups like the NSA have been caught spying on everyone and it doesn't hurt them all that much. The publicity isn't ideal. But it only confirms what we already new - turns out the spies are spying on people! Who knew.

There are probably dozens if not hundreds of this sort of attempt going on right now. I'd assume most don't get caught. Or go undetected for a many years which is good enough enough. If you have government money on the budget, it makes sense to go with large-volume low-effort attempts rather than try some sort of complex good-cop-bad-cop routine.

You're correct about a great many things. State actors do things in broad-daylight, get exposed, and it's no fuss to them at all. But that depends on which "sphere of influence" you live in. Russia and China have made major changes to key parts of their critical infrastructure based on revelations that might only result in a sub-committee in US Congress.

But to establish a significant contributor to a key piece of software, not unlike xz, is an ideal position for a state actor. The developer doesn't even need to know who/why, but they could be financially/ideologically aligned. This is what intelligence officers do. They manage real human assets who exist naturally. But to have someone long-established as an author of a project is the exact type of asset they want. Even if they push the code, people immediately start considering how it could have been done by someone else. Yes, it's conspiratorial/paranoid thinking but there's nothing more paranoid than state intelligence trade craft.

You can imagine all the layers of obfuscation you want, but it doesn't seem necessary to explain what is going on here.

On https://www.mail-archive.com/xz-devel@tukaani.org/msg00567.h..., Lasse Collin mentions long-term mental health issues among other things.

would be nice if he'd come out with some statements considering he's still committing to xz as of few hours ago

https://git.tukaani.org/?p=xz.git;a=commit;h=f9cf4c05edd14de...

You mean a statement like this https://tukaani.org/xz-backdoor/

It makes me wonder. Is it possible to develop a robust Open Source ecosystem without destroying the mental health of the contributors? Reading his posting really made me feel for him. There are exceedingly few people who are willing do dedicate themselves to developing critical system in the first place. Now there is the burden of extensively vetting every volunteer contributor who helps out. This does not seem sustainable. Perhaps users of open source need to contribute more resources/money to the software that makes their products possible.

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