Nine writers on their Adderall use and experiences | Hacker News Reader

Nine writers on their Adderall use and experiences

pioneerworks.org

50 pointsbookofjoe88 comments

What's amazing, to me, about Adderall is how much of a magic solution it is to some people who have real ADD (and not self-diagnosed similar symptoms). My girlfriend didn't get diagnosed until the age of 30 but clearly has ADD. I assumed she knew when we met each other, my therapist "diagnosed" her from my stories, and yet one day she asked me "Do you think I have ADD?" and I answered "I assumed you knew.". She then got diagnosed and started taking Adderall once a day on week days. It totally changed the way she's able to complete uninteresting work. She no longer works until 2-3am and is able to end her day while the sun is still up. Total game changer, and no negative side effects for her. I know many people abuse it, and maybe people suffer from side effects, but as a medication it truly has a reason to be prescribed (by doctors).

Completely agreed. It was a miracle for me. I felt like I was significantly less irritating and could concentrate on normal tasks.

It's important to talk about Adderall abuse, but at the same time, acknowledge its benefit for those who need it. It's such an embarrassing drug to admit to taking because it has so much stigma connected to it. I usually avoid talking about it because people's reactions can get very judgemental and uncomfortable.

I’ve never heard any stigma attached to adderall.

Adderall is a brand name of amphetamine / "speed". Enantiomers and purity notwithstanding, it's the same substance whether you acquire it from a pharmacy or a dealer, so any stigma applied to speed also applies to Adderall.

There's a lot of things you said in this one post which just aren't true.

1. "Speed" refers to a variety of amphetamine salts, not just the four in Adderall.

2. "Enantiomers notwithstanding" is an absurd aside: one enantiomer, levoamphetamine, has significantly less euphoric effect and as such isn't sold as a street or party drug, except incidentally as an impurity. Which enantiomers you're receiving is extremely relevant in this group of chemicals.

3. "Smoking meth" and "taking Adderall" have very different social stigmas. I'm certainly not saying there's no social stigma around Adderall, but there's definitely a lot more social stigma against non-pharmaceutical amphetamines.

Desoxyn (methamphetamine) has been used for ADHD treatment also. If I had to guess, it's somewhat less effective than other blends with a higher potential for addiction.

I have flirted with the idea of trying to get (pure) meth on the black market as an ADHD treatment during times where I was having trouble getting Adderall. I would only use it for this if I also had access to testing and could determine purity, so I could dose appropriate. Fortunately I've never been that desperate and unmedicated that I needed to take this risk.

I was also prescribed 3 different amphetamine blends over the last 26 years (Vyvanse, Adderall, and Dexedrine) as well as taken a 14-year break from all ADHD meds over the same period.

I do somewhat wonder if the size of the black market for amphetamines is so large in countries which outright ban amphetamines for ADHD treatment is in part due to people with ADHD self medicating (Yaba in Thailand for example, which now appears to be on the path to decriminalization)

Haven't you ever seen "they're giving our kids speed!" posts on social media? Everything in your post is true, but stigma isn't based on reality. Stigma against speed and Adderall are both fruit of the same poisoned tree. Trying to offset Adderall stigma by drawing (a correct!) distinction from speed is just furthering the problem.

> Haven't you ever seen "they're giving our kids speed!" posts on social media?

Yes, I have seen those posts. Have you seen the post you're responding to?

I made it very clear that I'm aware there is some social stigma around Adderall. I'm saying there is a much more severe social stigma around illegally-obtained amphetamines.

you must exist in a very narrow sect of society.

The sect of those who know what adderall is, is very narrow indeed.

Same for me, but took me even longer. I got where I am because I would spend whatever time it took to complete it, even when that meant neglecting family or sleep. Now I can do the same quality and quantity of work and learning, without all those hours wasting my time waiting for stress of the deadline to finally kick in to push out the ADD and just do the damn work. I can't help but wonder what the opportunity coat was for all that time.

The most interesting thing I learned is that it works only if you have ADHD. For normal folks, it gives the illusion of it being useful with lout objectively improving anything.

If you don’t have ADHD and are using Adderall, you are hurting yourself and society.

> is that it works only if you have ADHD

My understanding is that this is mostly a myth. Predictors of ADHD (and consider that a diagnosis can be highly inconsistent depending on the practitioner) don’t have a strong correlation with measures of productivity increase that compare treatment groups with/without Adderall.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/premium/article/adhd-adde....

https://www.verywellhealth.com/taking-adderall-ritalin-witho...

That's an online meme unsupported by evidence.

The opposite of what I am saying is a popular meme like in the article we are discussing here.

Some recent research backing what I say:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/premium/article/adhd-adde....

https://www.verywellhealth.com/taking-adderall-ritalin-witho...

You are welcome!

and an urban legend (did we use to call them?) before online memes were a thing.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/premium/article/adhd-adde....

https://www.verywellhealth.com/taking-adderall-ritalin-witho...

We no longer live in the 90s.

Modafinil needs to be better represented.

Let your girlfriend know that she deserves treatment on weekends, too. ADHD doesn't take days off. Medication helps with much more than work and chores.

As someone with ADHD who has been on stimulants... yes, ADHD doesn't take time off, but it's not that simple, and you should be more careful with making confident assertions about what other people should do with their health.

Stimulants slowly stopped working for me at low-moderate doses, and at higher doses I started having bad anxiety from them. One potential solution to this was to take time off from stimulants at regular intervals (such as weekends) to reduce buildup of tolerance and stay at the lower dose while getting the effects when I needed them. I ended up not going that route (taking Strattera now) but it's something I've heard from a few people.

I'll also add that ADHD symptoms aren't always experienced as all bad by everyone. Some people experience it as more creative, or adjacent to flow, and only want "treatment" when they need to buckle down and do more "boring" work. I'm not in that camp, but a friend of mine is.

Obviously, my confidence can't directly change someone's prescription. Only their psychiatrist can do that.

My point here is that the many psychiatrists are working in a framework where the evidence they are looking for is that treatment helps the patient complete obvious tasks like improving at work or school. This is why children get the overwhelming majority of diagnoses: school provides a framework of hard data to make judgements from.

Work and school advocate for themselves. The rest of a person's personal life doesn't. That's why either a psychiatrist or their patient must advocate for holistic treatment.

> My point here is that the many psychiatrists are working in a framework where the evidence they are looking for is that treatment helps the patient complete obvious tasks like improving at work or school. This is why children get the overwhelming majority of diagnoses: school provides a framework of hard data to make judgements from.

And if that was your point you should have said that. What you actually said, was a medical recommendation based on assumptions you could not possibly know.

No, that was your uncharitable reading of what I wrote.

This isn't a programming language. Everything we write is context sensitive. It's always going to be the reader's responsibility to provide a sensible context. As a reader, you will always be able to frame my writing negatively.

> No, that was your uncharitable reading of what I wrote.

I am in general an advocate of assuming the best possible meaning, but there isn't a charitable enough reading to what you said in your first post that makes it mean what you said in your second post.

> This isn't a programming language. Everything we write is context sensitive. It's always going to be the reader's responsibility to provide a sensible context. As a reader, you will always be able to frame my writing negatively.

True. So what context did I miss that makes "Let your girlfriend know that she deserves treatment on weekends, too." an okay thing to say? All the context I'm seeing there seems to indicate that you are sharing an unqualified opinion on whether someone should be treated for a medical condition on weekends, which is none of your business.

Yes, it's readers' responsibility to read charitably, but there is also some burden on the communicator to communicate effectively. Maybe you intended to say something other than what you said, but ultimately readers can only make the best of what you actually said, not what you intended to say.

If you intended to say something other than what you said, there's no shame in admitting you misspoke. Mistakes happen. But I'm not going to take the blame for your poor communication if I didn't read your mind when you said something you didn't mean.

this is unsolicited, non-medical healthcare advice. yikes.

Well obviously they would have to talk to their psychiatrist, who would make the final decision. That is already legally guaranteed!

I just wanted to share the context that it is very common for people to approach ADHD treatment from the perspective of work, and not life. I've talked to many people who have had to advocate for their own healthcare in this context, and greatly benefitted by doing so.

> Well obviously they would have to talk to their psychiatrist, who would make the final decision. That is already legally guaranteed!

Good thing psychologists are totally unmanipulable and nobody ever breaks laws.

> I just wanted to share the context that it is very common for people to approach ADHD treatment from the perspective of work, and not life.

Then perhaps you should have shared what you wanted to share instead of sharing an unqualified medical opinion.

I think I have ADHD but I am successful at work and have spurts of productivity (and laziness). I feel like I should just keep being the imperfect me.

I used to think like that, and to some extent I think its good to have some neurodiversity. I do have a relatively successful career after all.

That said, the day I randomly decided to try half of a pill of my wifes Adderall changed my life. I knew nothing about Adderall and just expected to just be smarter or something, instead I just...did things without being distracted. I scheduled an oil change, paid some bills, responded immediately to emails, etc. I learned later people with ADHD have a really hard time initiating uninteresting tasks, and the Adderall just obliterated that barrier.

I still think I'm largely old imperfect me, but now I don't get sent to collections for forgetting to pay a 5 dollar toll bill any more.

No offense, but you took amphetamine salts once or twice and are now suggesting someone take it as medication? I urge you and your partner to double check how worth-it the long term effects may be to you. In other words, make sure you really suffer an acute ADHD, and be weary of suggesting the drug to others so easily.

Sorry, to clarify, after I received a profound effect from the drug I scheduled an appointment with a psychiatrist who diagnosed me with ADHD and I have been on my own prescription ever since.

I want to chime in and say that you are probably doing the right thing. I was diagnosed with ADD in high school and did the whole adderall and vyvanse thing. Back in the '00s. Those meds are crack lite: they will help you get work done but will take your soul in return. I stopped the meds in college and suffered through my 20s learning how to survive without them. I'm now mid 30s and feel quite normal with the caveat that I require caffeine (I'm used to black tea for now) and an office (wfh is a nightmare) but at least I can live an otherwise normal life. ADHD meds cannot be a permanent solution, so I would stick to your current battles, I think you are most likely doing best for yourself.

I was diagnosed in my 30s. In retrospect, it explains a lot of difficulties I have had for my entire life. I wasn't hyperactive, so they mostly went unnoticed by other people -- it's really hard to know whether your struggles are unusual or not from the vantage point of your own head.

I would say that if you feel good and life is working for you, then you don't need to do anything. If your life circumstances change (e.g., for me, our having a child definitely exhausted my ability to grit my teeth and push through my focus issues with all nighters, followed by sleeping all day to recover) then help is generally not far away!

That's absolutely fine and your choice, and great that you don't feel that you need it, but just for anyone who could benefit from medication and is seeing your comment, it doesn't make you any less "you". Just like wearing glasses won't fundamentally change you but can be pretty helpful if you need them.

that's truly a terrible metaphor. an ADD/ADHD diagnosis is not physiological. and neither myopia nor hyperopia are psychological.

Not my metaphor -- it's one used by many doctors, neurologists, psychiatrists, and psychologists. ADHD does in fact have a physiological basis. It's a neurological disorder, specifically a neurodevelopmental and neurobehavioral disorder.

i never denied many people use it. maybe obviously i've heard it many times before myself. i simply offered that i believe it to be terrible.

and the rest of what you state is still very much up for medical, scientific, and philosophical debate.

Weak. If you believe it's up for debate then please refrain from responding with your own opinion like it's scientific fact.

It’s caused by the structure of the brain.

cite?

This is well known enough to be arguably common knowledge, but if you must:

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/adhd-brain-vs-norm...

i'm not particularly convinced by anything there, and certainly not by a mere bulleted "brain structure" nor the section which expounds on it. if i'm being completely honest, i'm not entirely sure what's even meant by the suggestion that ADD/ADHD is 'caused by the structure of the brain.'

sentience is 'caused' by the 'structure of the brain.' and?

> i'm not particularly convinced by anything there

That's fine; I'm not trying to change your mind because you've clearly already decided you know enough facts and aren't going to listen to any new ones. I respond in discussions like this to educate undecided readers.

> if i'm being completely honest, i'm not entirely sure what's even meant by the suggestion that ADD/ADHD is 'caused by the structure of the brain.'

> sentience is 'caused' by the 'structure of the brain.' and?

It's a direct refutation of your wrong claim "an ADD/ADHD diagnosis is not physiological", which you said a few posts back.

You know what the word "physiological" means, right? You said it, so it seems like you thought it was important enough to say, but now that it looks wrong you want to say it's not important?

get a grip. i'm obviously not going to engage with that. it was obvious that i shouldn't have even engaged you in the first place. "but if you must":

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

If you decide to stop arguing for misinformation that's entirely fine with me.

The guidelines don't state that we're supposed to not disagree with misinformation, and if they did, I wouldn't comply.

Slate Star Codex did a great write-up of risks and rewards of adderall from their perspective as a "gatekeeping psychiatrist"

It's a super informative, and kind of technical read.

https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/12/28/adderall-risks-much-mo...

I remember being a kid during peak ADD hype. I was "diagnosed" by a teacher, who recommended drugs, which my father unapologetically told to go fuck herself.

When I have taken aderall as an adult, I find that it is not conducive to mental work. It's fantastic if I need to hammer out a bunch of rote, physical tasks. I can't think about anything complex on it, I can't program on it, because my mind is everwyere.

I do believe wholeheartedly that this new trend in software where everything is constantly broken, overcomplicated, well thought out decisions thrown out for no reason without a second thought (looking at you, side scrolling "open with..." dialog in android) is largely due to people tweaking behind their keyboards.

To get a little woo woo, I remember reading a study about spiders on different drugs and how they spun their webs, and I came to the conclusion our form follows our function, we are what we do, and drugs modify our expression of our very being, and the feedback mechanisms by which we assess that expression. This can be good, bad, there can be tradeoffs, we may understand those or not, but the effect is evident in what we do, in the world we build around us.

Counterpoint: I was professionally diagnosed as a child, my mum got me medicated, my dad got me off it a year later because it was "all about discipline".

Typical untreated ADHD style I excelled through early school until the later years of high school and struggled hard with procrastination, etc.

Got lucky with work for the first 8 years of my career in support work that is constantly changing, often high pressure which tends to capitalise on the ADHD brain but always struggled with anything long term, any project or case that takes more than a few days or weeks is a struggle.

Finally got re-diagnosed as an adult and it was LIFE CHANGING. Been on medication for about 10 years now. My psych retired and I was off medication for about a month and then briefly tried a different medication for another few weeks before going back to my original and it was miserable, I got almost nothing done for those 2 months.

I promise you, I just cannot think or disclipline my way out of it :)

Wasn't the spider thing just a YouTube joke or was that from an actual legit study?

I'll never understand making a post instead of running a quick Google search.

https://www.miragenews.com/nasas-experiment-with-spiders-min...

Honestly? Usually because 1.) there are tons of folks on HN FAR more knowledgeable than I on many subjects, 2.) it's more annoying on my phone, and 3.) frequently it's not just a simple search.

My apologies for being lazy though and thanks for the link.

Yeah it was real. Conducted in 1948 by Peter N Witt, the experiment was funded by NASA.

From the anecdotes I hear, it seems dubious from an ethical standpoint because the assertion is almost always that a person cannot think clearly due to add, so they need meds. But how can they consent to taking those meds if they can’t think clearly? Surely researching the cost/benefit and long term health outcomes of a drug like that requires the ability to focus and think clearly. It seems hard to defend, ethically.

A far more accurate title would be “Nine writers on their drug addictions and experiences,” because very little of this article has anything to do with ADHD or the legitimate therapeutic uses of Adderall.

Also telling that none of the writers reflected on how their behavior contributes to the absurd hoops people like me have to jump through to actually access the drug (when we can get it at all, anyways).

If you’ve got ADHD, don’t bother reading it. It’s just infuriating.

No kidding, part six literally opens with:

> I do not believe ADHD is an inherent thing.

They just put those cards right on the table, lol. No hesitation!

What I think a lot of people don't realize is that ADHD is classified as a neurodevelopmental disorder alongside stuff like autism. Which means attention and executive function are only a piece of the larger puzzle; ADHD's biggest impacts on me as a kid were (1) difficulty regulating emotions and (2) general social stunted-ness. I still struggle with the former, I thankfully caught up on the latter (mostly :P), and "attention" issues have remained an undercurrent throughout.

Various medications, and not just stimulants(!) have helped on all fronts.

I recently underwent a voluntary general psychological evaluation as I was trying to get a professional opinion on autism. I have been with an ADHD diagnosis for about 10 years and medicated about half that time. A series of tests reaffirmed ADHD with quantitative data. For example I was asked to put on a set of headphones and press the space bar on a laptop when I heard certain tones, or was flashed particular letters. I performed terribly at these tasks, even as I was regarded otherwise as healthy and with above average intelligence. I medicated ADHD was for me about getting in car accidents a lot and general aimlessness. Productivity wasn’t a primary concern for me, but I exhausted myself to reach average levels of output. I’ve never ‘popped pills’ that weren’t prescribed to me, and always take mine with consistent timing. Reading these essays was infuriating and painful, to bear witness to a stigma I wasn’t really aware of. I don’t use adderall as a cheat code. I take it because it is what my doctors recommend and because I’m unsafe and unmoored without it.

As a person with ADHD whose executive function is markedly improved by stimulant medication, and who knows a lot of people in the same boat, the whole thrust of the introduction to this article is pretty amazingly tone-deaf and specious.

I have ADHD and am recently back on Adderall after a 14-15 year break.

Honestly, it's pretty necessary for me at this point in my life, but there was a reason I went off it also, and a lot of the perhaps unexpected qualities mentioned in the stories here sound familiar to me.

I never "liked" it though, I can't imagine taking it if I didn't also need to get shit done.

I echo this sentiment. I wish there was something less habit-forming that could help me function well. There isn’t. At least not yet.

Interestingly I don't think it became a "habit" for me. I'd want to not take it as much as possible, so would avoid it on days I didn't need to cram or finish a big project.

It has some undesireable side effects for me and I think does make me a bit more distant from emotions and empathy in a way that I think is reflected in my interactions. I feel like my communication is a bit more wooden if that makes sense.

What do you think of modafinil, which is sometimes prescribed for some ADHD varieties?

Ugh. Same.

I hate the “speed” narrative…It’s so addictive I need a cap on my medicine with a timer to know if I took it or not…

Too many ups and downs causes instability. People don't like to admit it but many of the current problems are a consequence of drug use.

As someone in their 40s who only received a diagnosis in their 40s, I found Adderall to be transformative. I only recognized the symptoms when my son was diagnosed ADHD and I started researching. It was through various videos and articles that I saw reflections of my own experiences. So I spoke to a doctor about it.

My experience with Adderall is characterized by its stability. I don’t experience the highs and lows often associated with medication. I'm on a pretty low dose and I do not take the medication every day. Instead of feeling energized or high, Adderall brings me a sense of calm, which was somewhat unexpected, considering its use as a party drug. But for me, it silences the constant noise in my head and allows me to just think and speak. I can actually speak to people without my mind rushing ahead of my voice, tangling up all my words. I'm effective at work and my job performance has improved significantly. My wife noticed a change pretty quick in the day to day life around the home as well.

Yup. Same experience in my mid 30s but Vyvanse instead of Adderall. I expect that if I had proper access to healthcare before my mid 20s I’d have had medication sooner in life.

Saying anything negative about adderall is an extremely unpopular opinion on HN, as you can see. It turns out people who take amphetamines really like amphetamines. If you’re a consenting adult I don’t see a problem with it. It gets ugly when you have doctors or teachers suggesting your child should be on them or “tested” for ADD. You are changing your child's brain permanently by making this decision. Changing who they are, for better or worse. Amphetamine salts long term are incredibly altering and heavy handed. They should only be administered to kids in very unusual cases in my opinion. Reduction of effective deep sleep alone should give you enough pause to reconsider. And thats the tip of the iceberg. But I understand it’s hard when you are pressured by doctors or therapists. Or have a particularly unruly child without the time or patience to give them the attention they need. Please for anyone reading this thinking about giving this to their kids, reconsider and exhaust all other options.

> It turns out people who take amphetamines really like amphetamines.

More than that. They also like to post about how much they like amphetamines on the internet. Tirelessly.

The part of this article that mentioned that was the most insightful I thought.

Have you or someone you know been negatively impacted by adderall? I’m curious to hear what you’ve gone through that led you to this conclusion.

Yours maybe.

we all know why you've apparently taken offense to a non-confrontational personal opinion.

The statement was definitely confrontational, and it being a personal opinion does not put it above criticism. Personal opinions can be bad, abhorrent, etc.

And before you launch another ad hominem argument: I do not take stimulants of any kind for my ADHD, so no, I am not defending amphetamines for ADHD because I am addicted to them.

Maybe keep your nose out of other people's medical business?

I see your downvoted but I agree. Workplace "success" is a metric but not the only metric in life. And if you decrease the focus on that metric I think you would find some darker sides. Downvote away.

I don’t take it for Workplace Success. I take it for life primarily. I like that adderall helps me do laundry and plan trips and dates with my girlfriend. Without it I tend to stay “in the moment” and never look towards the future.

If you think ADHD only affects your workplace success, you're incredibly ignorant of ADHD.

ADHD damages one's life in way more contexts than just work.

some people cherish their neurodiversity. it doesn't feel appropriate to make this broad generalization about a psychiatric diagnosis.

I have not found any conflict between enjoying some parts of my ADHD and admitting that is has had damaging effects on many areas of my life from work to self esteem to rock climbing to romantic relationships.

Is Adderall significantly different the Ritalin? Prescribed the latter and I would not call it addictive. If I don't take it I don't crave it...

..unlike Nicotine which seems impossible to stop.

As someone whose been on and off amphetamines for almost 3 decades (with about 14 years of that unmedicated), I'd say all the prescription amphetamines I've been on (Adderall, Dexedrine, Vyvanse) are pretty similar and anti-addictive for me. Due to side effects I'd strongly prefer not to take them, but do so when I need to because they help me stay on task.

I'm currently prescribed Concerta (which should be much more similar to Ritalin IIRC) and find it somewhat less effective at ADHD treatment (I also fortunately have a lot of leftover Adderall due to avoiding it on days I don't need it), but I can't imagine it's any less addictive for me since I don't like taking the amphetamine drugs in the first place.

Depends on the person, but pharmacologically they are pretty similar.

I was on Ritalin as a kid and eventually it seemed to lessen in effectiveness, so we switched to a low initial dose of Adderall. Didn't do much, so we went to a higher dose a week later, and then the next higher a week after that. And then I was manic for a couple days. So we switched back to Ritalin, or found something else.

Statistically they're probably pretty similar, but individual bodies and weird and variable.

(Neither was addictive for me.)

It is psychologically addictive as opposed to an addiction which would create a physical dependency in your system. Nicotine for instance doesn't really induce much of a "high" or "euphoria" (many report essentially no effect after prolonged usage). The reason stimulants like adderal can be addictive is that for many they induce an objective euphoria that upon self-conditioning can be incredibly difficult to stop taking the drug even though it doesn't technically have negative effects after stopping for a few days.

Anyone who has suffered from depression or similar and taken an adderal for the first time will understand. It takes many bad feelings and replaces them with an almost manic productivity. There are downsides, but they commonly outweigh the negatives one was experiencing without the drug.

> It is psychologically addictive as opposed to an addiction which would create a physical dependency in your system.

This is just flatly wrong. Amphetamines do have symptoms of physical (not psychological) withdrawal such as ataxia and diarrhea. These more severe symptoms only typically happen when withdrawing from higher doses than are prescribed, but those withdrawing from lower doses can expect to experience milder symptoms such as fatigue.

Be careful getting too excited about an amphetamine addiction. Delusions of grandeur etc. Maybe your body doesn't want to do homework for good reasons? I see the legal speed industry as just another shameless means to get people to continue working at soulless jobs. Cruel to drug so many kids. Might as well not reproduce in the first place if you insist they must sit still. Not to mention the side effects on heart, brain, sleep and tendency to become almost as insufferable as cokeheads. Way too many parents giving it a pass because it's sold as "medication". How about we stop creating fucked societies instead?

Just so you're aware, this sort of rambling in half-sentences generally comes across as a little unhinged, and doesn't generally persuade people.

Maybe if you took Adderall you could write full sentences. ;)

Attacking my style of prose doesn't change the facts. Amphetamines can harm the body in many ways, and lead to:

•Appetite decrease and weight loss

•Heart problems such as fast heart rate, irregular heartbeat, increased blood pressure, and heart attack

•High body temperature and skin flushing

•Memory loss, problems thinking clearly, and stroke

•Mood and emotional problems such as aggressive or violent behavior, depression, and suicide

•Ongoing hallucinations and inability to tell what is real

•Restlessness and tremors

•Skin sores

•Sleep problems

•Tooth decay (meth mouth)

•Death

> Attacking my style of prose doesn't change the facts.

True! I agree with everything you've said in this second post.

However:

1. What you're describing as "the facts" has changed pretty significantly between your first and second posts. As it turns out, being more careful about how you communicate seems to make you more careful about actually stating the facts instead of your opinions.

2. Even if your first post were all facts (which it was not), I would prefer that the facts be presented persuasively so that people believe the facts--making the facts sound like the crazed ramblings of a stoned person is counterproductive to spreading facts.

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