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Comment by stackskipton | Hacker News Reader

Worth noting that Vultr has responded and modified their TOS to remove those terms.

https://www.vultr.com/news/A-Note-About-Vultrs-Terms-of-Serv...

So... it was a legalese

We need regulation around this sooo bad. Nobody reads TOS, or at least 99.9999% of people don't because it's simply too much. It's unreasonable to expect people to read these long documents and understand what they mean. We need requirements of high-level overviews in very plain language. Slimming this stuff down and removing BS lawyer fluff is the only way in my eyes.

In a way it's a failure of precedent rather than regulation, since ideally the judge would throw some of these contracts out the same as if they had special clauses in microscopic font.

I agree. It honestly feels like these could be boiled down to about 30 “standard” options.

> Nobody reads TOS, or at least 99.9999% of people don't because it's simply too much.

Huge opportunity for a service using AI that does, then reports on a public site businesses using shady language or hiding traps, possibly assigning a score.

Yeah - Probably just explaining any contract on a higher level and if there'a red flag etc

Email them your own TOS. If they continue service after notification they can be held to those TOS.

From their statement: "We recognize that the average user doesn't have a law degree" or in other words "you are too stupid" to understand words. Isn't it a bit of catch-22, we put an agreement for you to sign and accept[understanding is implied], but we also understand that you are too stupid to understand it.

Also how is perpetual irrevocable links to commercialize your content in any way they want is required for providing the service?

  You hereby grant to Vultr a non-exclusive, *perpetual*, *irrevocable*, royalty-free, fully paid-up, worldwide license (including the right to sublicense through multiple tiers) to use, reproduce, process, adapt, publicly perform, publicly display, modify, *prepare derivative works*, publish, transmit and distribute each of your User Content, or any portion thereof, in any form, medium or distribution method now known or hereafter existing, known or developed, and *otherwise use and commercialize the User Content in any way that Vultr deems appropriate*, without any further consent, notice and/or compensation to you or to any third parties, *for purposes of providing the Services to you*._

Their statement is a utter nonsense and should be treated with as much respect as verbal diarrhea.

They're running a business, and in business these kinds of asinine decisions hurt the bottom line.

Fuck them. Move to a different VPS host. I won't be doing business with them ever again, nor do I have the time to re-read their ToS at some point in the future.

Ah, these pop ups to accept new T&S can be obnoxious. You even may not be able to access control panel without accepting it.

was reading the comments before the article again. never heard of Vultr and assumed by the terms that it was some kind of niche social network. those terms are basically identical to Reddit's so it would make sense.

but a *VPS host*? that's absurd. it's like someone there asked ChatGPT for a new TOS without telling it what the TOS would be for.

Note the part that even you, an apparently not stupid person, are failing to recognize:

> for purposes of providing the Services to you

It's not about being too stupid. Legalese is very specific, not lay language, and you always should refer to your legal counsel for interpretation.

An example that always comes to mind is "hostile workplace". It has a very, very specific legal definition that is different from a lay understanding of such. It's not hard for pitchforks to be raised when the rabble misinterprets a legal term.

Let's be clear. I'm not saying Vultr has done nothing wrong or hasn't overreached here. I'm only responding to your comment in general terms.

Yeah, and they'll add it back in 2 or 3 weeks once this round of furor dies down.

Then it'll be some 'to gain access to your site you must agree....' crap.

I'm really hating what the Internet has turned into.

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