How does an independent bookstore survive for 90 years? | Hacker News Reader

How does an independent bookstore survive for 90 years?

deseret.com

52 pointselorant51 comments

If you're in the Bay Area and like visiting bookstores that have been around awhile, there are quite a few good ones here:

* Bell's books, Palo Alto, ~89 yr. [1]

* Moe's books, Berkeley, 65 yr. [2]

* Green Apple Books, SF, 57 yr. [3]

* City Lights, SF, 71 yr. [4]

* Recycle Bookstore, San Jose, 57 yr. [5]

* Feldman books, Menlo Park, ~25 yr. [6]

* Borderlands, SF, 27 yr. [7]

* Friends of the Palo Alto Library (Fopal), Palo Alto, ~54 yr, [8]. This is a used book sale (2nd weekend of every month) and not a bookstore per se, but it gets a special mention because of the price and breadth of books/topics. Esp. good for technical books (I have a $2 hardcover CLRS from here) - these are hard to find elsewhere. Los Altos library also conducts a pretty big sale, but that's not as frequent.

I'm sure I am missing some!

[1] https://www.bellsbooks.com/about

[2] https://www.moesbooks.com/

[3] https://www.greenapplebooks.com/store-history

[4] https://citylights.com/our-story/a-short-history-of-city-lig...

[5] https://www.recyclebookstore.com/about

[6] https://www.feldmansbooks.net/home

[7] https://borderlands-books.com/v2/about/history/

[8] https://www.fopal.org/history

Edit: added fopal.

great list :)

too bad so many have been lost. I think bookbuyers is completely gone now.

and moved to online. While i love reading books, it's convenient to read summaries while book reading has turned more into a hobby or something

Adding onto this, if anyone is in and around Raleigh, check out Reader's Corner on Hillsborough St. ~44 years

https://www.wral.com/raleigh-bookstore-owner-focuses-on-ever...

Powell's (Portland) and City Lights (SF) are worth mentioning and should be on your bucket list.

0. Powell's is massive.

1. How many bookstores can claim they published Ginsberg?

2. The used bookstore collapse from 2002-present has been a slow-moving, silent killer of independent bookstores. Davis, CA had a half dozen bookstores until Borders moved in. Then Borders went bust in 2011 and they were left nearly a book desert. This mirrors, in a more minor way, food deserts that Walmart's expansion and contraction brings.

https://daviswiki.org/Bogey%27s_Books

https://daviswiki.org/Gayle%27s_Books

https://daviswiki.org/Orpheus_Books

https://daviswiki.org/Sweet_Briar_Books

https://daviswiki.org/The_Next_Chapter

I really miss having quality used bookstores. I used to live somewhere with a Friends of the Library that was top notch. And things like http://www.wavebooks.com/ are also top notch. But they sure aren't everywhere

I luckily have one where I live. I love the prices. They’re always $2-4 and makes it so easy to find something you would never otherwise stumble upon.

Strongly recommend Better World Books. It's a unique nonprofit that sells used books to fund adult literacy programs. Free shipping. www.BetterWorld.com

The scent of the random used bookstores my parents dragged me into as a kid is a core memory.

Also contributed a lot of garbage/mid tier 70s and 80s sci fi to our shelves but I'm still a voracious reader so mission accomplished, parents.

Although I guess it is something of a tourist magnet, The Strand in NYC is probably also worth mentioning. (But then so are the two you mention.)

the amazon hemorrhaging already happened and the industry stabilized. new indie stores are trending up: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/10/books/bookstores-diversit...

also: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/books-back-what-caused-bookst...

and for good or ill, even Borders is expanding again

>The used bookstore collapse from 2002-present has been a slow-moving, silent killer of independent bookstores. Davis, CA had a half dozen bookstores until Borders moved in. Then Borders went bust in 2011 and they were left nearly a book desert.

I don't get it: how would Borders put independent used bookstores out of business? People who want used books (either because they actually like old books, or because they want good prices) aren't going to find them at Borders or any other new bookstore. They're different markets.

>This mirrors, in a more minor way, food deserts that Walmart's expansion and contraction brings.

Same thing here: people who want quality food aren't going to shop at Walmart.

I can't compare to the past as I was a post-Borders-closure resident of Davis, but we do still have the Logos books that's connected to the library, plus the monthly book sales at the library itself. There's also Avid Reader for new books. I wouldn't really call it a "book desert". Time Tested Books over in Sac's midtown is also a great stop.

They own the building/storefront (i.e. no lease and no mortgage)? If you're a retail outlet and you own the property outright, you can weather almost any storm.

Until property taxes eventually push them out as it has done in some urban communities. Ownership is huge but prices will always rise so I think it's hard to ever let their guard down.

Property taxes will eventually get you, but if the bookstore owns the building its in, it will (almost by definition) be able to sell for millions and move elsewhere, if it wants to.

Usually (in my experience) it survives until the owner retires or dies, and then disappears.

You pay the property taxes either way. It's not like the landlord can just make them go away, they just get hidden in the rent hikes.

I worked at a used bookstore for many years, and this is what the owner told me how he managed to stay in business for more than 40 years in the same building. Especially since moving all your stock to a new location if you rent is a big pain.

It can often be the line between success and failure; commercial rents are such a major portion of a service business's expense.

I’ve heard this in several places. It’s really key for longevity.

Also, the company is privately owned or the owner is also a majority stakeholder. Otherwise owning the building is a liability that venture capital types will exploit to pay themselves back for the expenses of taking over your company.

Surely you mean an asset, not a liability?

Not if you are trying to avoid being bought out. Those assets are just something the VC firm will leverage to buy out your company. Basically telling their lenders that you own X amount of real estate worth $Y, so use it as collateral on the loan they make to take over your company. Those assets then get sold to pay off the loan and the stores get to pay rent to some landlord.

My family operated a jewelry store this way for about 90 years.

“Brick Shithouse” was their term for it.

“An article built more robustly than its function requires; implies an element of indestructability.”

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/brick_shithouse#:~:text=Nou...

I see a lot of similarity between indie book stores, and bicycle shops. Both ebb and flow as seasons, tastes, and availability change, in addition to competing with big box and online stores. They are part of our communities that appeal and serve broad segments of people, supporting them should be encouraged.

Funnily enough, I was walking down the street in a nearby city before a play to see what was new. I sort of mentally observe that a bike store in the area was still there that had been there 45 years ago when I was an undergrad and probably wasn't new then.

I don't think surviving for 90 years is the problem, the challenge would be surviving for the next 10 years. Or if we're being optimistic and poetic, another 90 years.

Agree, it's becoming more chalanging to live for a bookstore

I don't fully understand it, but the I5 Corridor in Washington hosts an exceptional number of used bookstores.

It seems like every tiny town has a decent one.

My favorite is Easton's Books in Mt. Vernon, WA. Massive selection of paperbacks, as well as great collectible books as well.

Didn’t Amazon start out selling books? Might explain some of it.

101 In Oregon used to have at least one in every tiny town, haven't been out that way in a while but I found some amazing deals on some old and rare books.

By starting decades before it became so easy to buy books online and by being willing to keep going through hard times. Essentially by being founded in a completely different time. There probably won't be any 90 year old bookshops in 90 years time.

When it was generally a pain to order books that weren't in stock. That were generally not discounted--and when they were, not by much. No ebooks. More people used to read more books.

Buying a load of used books was pretty much a monthly thing for me at one point. Now I might go to my library's annual book sale when it's $10 a bag.

I used to stop by a used book store or two just to browse around and see what was out there.

I don't do that anymore, and it's not only because there aren't any used book stores nearby.

I used to do a semi-regular Saturday trip into Harvard Square to shop for books, music, and other things. Really just no need or interest to do that anymore. I don't need more stuff generally, don't buy physical music media for the most part, and while I may grab the occasional used book, I have a pretty large backlog and can have something on my Kindle in a minute. Mostly don't have a need or interest to browse in stores.

That was a big part of it; I recall heading home from school and stopping in at the used bookstore, grab a interesting looking novel for 25 cents, read it on the way home, toss or donate it.

>> More people used to read more books

I read a lot of books, at least one a week, but physical bookstores don't work for me. I decide what book I want to read next, and then get that book, either a physical copy ordered online or a digital copy, instead of going to a bookstore and picking a book from what they have available.

I'm old, bookstores are what I used to do, I like the idea of them. I like the idea of browsing a bookstore. But, in reality, I rarely go to them.

I can get exactly what I want instead of whatever someone wants to sell me.

With the exception of books that are really about the appearance perhaps, it's not like browsing a book in a bookstore for a few minutes tells you all that much. You're basically dealing with the marketing (like the cover and the blurb) at that point. Probably better to deal with online reviews however imperfect.

I still appreciate the experience every now and then but, really, I don't have a lot of reason to buy from bookstores much of the time.

Well to take the other side, I was a kid. The way that you would discover things, bookstores were a part of that.

But I don't have to discover things now. I get exactly what I want. There's no underground.

The things I would have had to seek out now get delivered by Amazon.

That world is over.

Is the new world better?

For purposes of finding books, oh hell yeah.

I’ve got a book-related side project I hope to launch in a few months. In my quiet moments I like to dream it would support a bookstore as a part of it. They’re great places and what makes them great is hard to find online.

lemme get on your mailing list, love to know what's going on with new stuff in the book world. i have a book-ish side project too: https://www.bookhead.net/marketing/

+1 even I want to join the mailing list.

If you’re in Boston we’ve still got a few great ones. I’m partial to used books

- Commonwealth

- Brattle

- Brookline Booksmith

- Harvard

- Rodney’s (though it moved)

Also if you like old bookstores you’d probably find The book “in praise of good bookstores” a delightful read.

Seconding the book recommendation. The author is Jeff Deutsch who is the director of the Seminary co-op bookstores, Chicago. These also have been around for a while. I have been to the one in the Univ. of Chicago campus, and would recommend visiting!

Was such an intimate, sober, loving look at bookstores. Really great.

The Seminary Cooop on the UChicago campus is excellent — I spent many afternoons there. Also there are many book events by famous authors.

Down the street is the 57th St bookstore which is less academic, and also a great place to find more popular books.

I know some might chafe at me recommending a Youtube video about reading, but I came across this one a few years ago, and it's an interesting exploration of modern bookstores and the dynamics of reading as a pursuit in the age of social media: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIW5jBrrsS0

Sam Weller's is somewhat of an institution, but I was sad to see them move out of downtown and over to Trolley Square.

Trolley square is one of those urban/suburban mall projects that always seems to be teetering on the edge. The edge of success, or the edge of failure, depending on your optimism/pessimism scale. You can go there on a summer afternoon and see nary a soul in the place.

The effect of them moving over there is that I now have to _purposely_ go to Sam Weller's, rather than stopping by when doing other things downtown. Couple that with the bookstore being split between the books you can actually buy and the rare-book reading room, and its somehow a incongruous experience.

I love the store and what it represents, but do feel that the move kind of signified the full turnover of downtown SLC from a somewhat bohemian place, with cafe's such as the Atlantic, and tea shops such as the Beehive Tea room, to just a support structure for City Creek Mall, is complete.

Do not know why but this article reminded me of "Black Books"

A healthy supply of independent readers?

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