Harvard University removes human skin binding from book
library.harvard.edu
library.harvard.edu
How many months, how many years? Does it matter if the person who did it is a respected scholar or a convicted serial killer?
with an extra 10 years for respected scholars
https://www.carscoops.com/2007/10/war-crimes-soldiers-destro...
If this was the skin of your grandmother’s grandmother, how would your grandmother feel about it being used a hazing ritual?
Using the balance of probabilities it is likely that the unidentified person’s family would not want that to happen and is likely they would want their grandmother back.
This being a woman is only relevant because, in that era it was more likely to be a woman, I.e. consent was not seen as important when do things to/with women’s bodies.
Since I'm an atheist, I don't really have particularly strong feelings about what happens after I die (ideally: reasonably green, so composting seems better than cremation). And yet, it is weird to imagine my doctor or mortician taking some part of my body for their personal collection (imagine a tooth or finger).
With that in mind, I understand these posts. Harvard: "whoa guys this is skin!" To "sorry we called you all guys [2], and sorry we were shocked and sensational in our discussion of this artifact"
What should they do? It makes sense to have human attendants manage the book if you want it to be accessible in the collection. At least then they can warn would-be viewers (since that's a thing they want to do)
They could just donate the book to a museum? Then nobody really touches it and it's probably well-preserved. They could remove (but preserve) the skin. I imagine that's what they've done, which seems ok. Anyone can use the book, researchers can study the skin
The book-skin combo artifact doesn't seem particularly special to me - is it worth preserving as a whole unit? I'm surprised so many others in the comments think so
[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliquary#:~:text=A%20reliqu....
[2] this is a joke
[3] thinking about this, I can't imagine human skin is the best binding for a book, but I do appreciate that it would be possible to say "I really don't care what happens to my skin" or to otherwise be ok with this. It doesn't seem like this was the case for this book, though.
So what's your point, we should glorify some sick mind who thought it was a good idea to take and use human remains to decorate his library?
Removing the binding from the book was the right decision. Returning the victim's remains to their descendants and trying to find more context on how their loved one perished is also absolutely the right decision.
Impugning the motives of people you disagree with is a personal attack, and it's unacceptable behavior.
"Typically this term refers to a rhetorical strategy where the speaker attacks the character, MOTIVE, or some other attribute of the person making an argument rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem (emphasis added)
Arguing against preservation of an artifact—based on the the opponent's ostensible motive that "we should glorify some sick mind" who created the artifact—is a personal attack. It is unbecoming, and it is prohibited on HN.
It's a soul-crushing experience that offers both small and large lessons, which should suffice to help people distinguish between right and wrong (and dispel any doubt that the book binding should be removed). Even for those who have never visited any of these sites, probably every corner of the world has had its share of historical lessons that (should) reinforce this understanding.
I don't know if was violent, it's not what I was trying to imply. In my mind it resonates with "this was a person and someone decided to use them for decoration". Knowing this happened is enough to take the appropriate action, there is no harm in documenting all this, of course.
While not on the same level as, it's the same though process that leads to the destruction of budda statues by the talibans, or the sanding of 13-century religious engravelling by french revolutionary.
I haven't seen anyone make a compelling case for why this particular item is a significant historical artifact, other than that it was already in the collection of Harvard Library.
We pass up things that could be preserved all the time. Curation is an intrinsic part of preservation.
I agree though about passing things that could be preserved, but it usually involves a tradeoff, when things are too costly to maintain, or old building needs to give place for new one. Even museums aren't the place for a collective diogen syndrom.
The slightly heinous thing about this case though is that no tradeoff at all seemed to be involved for this book, no cost of preservation was cited, it's just modifying the past on the lights of very temporal values.
I'm not sure what you mean by this; obviously the "history" of the book is known and not being suppressed. Nobody is denying the origin of the book; if it had been a significant historical artifact, I'm sure the judgment would have been different. "You're destroying history!" is a common refrain when Jim Crow-era statues commemorating confederate generals are removed, or when, e.g., the name of a military base is changed. This does not mean that history is being destroyed! Anyone is still welcome to learn anything they want about these historical figures & events.
There's value in physical artifact too, it's sad to destroy those out of righteousness.
As for the statue, where those statue removed or destroyed/melted ? If it's the latter, then yes it's also historicidal, even if it's for the 'bad guys'.
The tradeoff is that we have two potential futures here:
Option A: Someone's skin non-consensually remains used as the cover of a book.
Option B: Someone's skin is returned to their family or buried, and the book is re-covered.
What is the benefit of Option A?
It's an almost 150-old piece of skin. Everyone who interacted with that poor woman is long since dead. Everyone who interacted with someone who interacted with that woman is either dead or in mid-to-late 70s, that's how far this is. I would be surprised if there was a 'family' who waited for this moment, and who would ask anything else than just to cremate the piece of skin.
I'm parisian, and part of my family is in the region for a long time, and yet it's not like I'm mourning every day because potentially some ancestor's tibia is being used as decoration in the catacombe.
It's not that human skin is being used for a purpose: it's that the purpose is trivial and provides no benefit above substitution.
The analogy would be if your great-great-grandfather's tibia were being used to hold a door open.
Joke aside, I see your point.
Ironically, I think I'd be okay with my skin adorning an anatomy textbook!
From what I've gathered it's a writer/poet/actor striken by grief who ponders about what happens after death, and about the notion of a soul, both historically (he seems to be speaking a bit about hinduism and greco-roman conceptions of a soul), philosophically, and theologically.
While this still doesn't justify the initial act of using someone skins, knowing the title in french makes it clear that there is a posthumous thematic, I haven't realized that it may not be obvious to non-french speakers.
That's definitely a bit more debatable, for thematic purposes as you said, but I think I (personally) would want some utility in the book (instead of a more artistic or philosophical work) to justify a skin cover.
I disagree with this. The thought process is "return stolen items" not "destroy stolen items."
Harvard doesn't believe it owns the human remains because they were taken without consent (stolen) and wants to return them to the next of kin. This happened recently enough that there's a good chance there's close-ish relatives still living.
If the remains were donated willingly for bookbinding it would not be a problem.
So what's happening is Harvard is removing part of the book that it believes it doesn't rightfully own (and aren't even original to it!) and are trying returning that part to its rightful owner. They are rebinding the book, not destroying it.
>After careful study, stakeholder engagement, and consideration, Harvard Library and the Harvard Museum Collections Returns Committee concluded that the human remains used in the book’s binding no longer belong in the Harvard Library collections, due to the ethically fraught nature of the book’s origins and subsequent history. The Library is now in the process of conducting additional provenance and biographical research into the book, Bouland, and the anonymous female patient, as well as consulting with appropriate authorities at the University and in France to determine a final respectful disposition of these human remains.
It is well known that the Nazis created items like lamps, books and other items from human remains. Should all of them be buried? Or should we keep them in museums to remember the crimes?
I can see the justification for both sides, but I personally would prefer for the items to be preserved.
I hope this is preserved; what a pointless waste otherwise. How are we to imagine the deceased here? A person outraged at the insult, or one now doubly outraged at the waste?
But I'd feel some kind of way if someone flayed my skin off my cadaver to make a book cover.
Even being a skeleton in an anatomy class seems more purposeful.
If it hasn’t been donated by the family, what right does the university have over it?
This 'disposing' isnt being consented to either. Why should it be that non-consentual creation is a sin, but not non-consentual destruction?
If your home town was invaded tonight, everyone you know and love there killed, and their skin used to upholster the president’s favorite recliner, would that make their remains an artifact now? What more is there to learn in keeping a corpse unburied in this case?
I don't bill myself as an expert on early 20th-century burial practices in America, but I'm willing the hazard the default expectation was "ground" rather than "use to make a book cover."
Ergo, it seems in keeping with the deceased's likely wishes to properly bury their remains.
That's... a thing you can do. Yeesh.
Bet he was a Lovecraft fan in his final years.
It’s certainly meaningful to acknowledge the past and alter the way we celebrate it, including by deciding the things we take forward with us.
Seriously, look up the book. It sounds like a polite description of a necromantic grimoire.
I guess the real question is 'why do you think consent overrides everything else and, more importantly, should we disassemble pyramids, because they were built without the consent of its slave labor?'
The removal of the skin binding is symbolic, and is a small initiative in the gestalt of righting historical wrongs and creating a just society.
It’s not that similar, is it? Most people would object to the doctor flaying grandma, but there are interviews with that surgeon’s former transplant patients who don’t seem too bothered they may have been branded.
If anything, I'd be happy if the surgeon engraved his initials on my liver. This likely means he was proud of his work.
OTOH, I've seen people evading any mention of their name in the public releases of software code of horrendous quality by institutions, so I can relate this to my profession. Anonymous work correlates with bad work.
And then there’s the angle of sparing library staff from handling the human skin.
Some pharaohs took their slaves to the other sides and as I understand, those slaves were mummified to travel to the next world.
As for the anguish, is it any different really than holding any other significant artifact with a story behind it ( executioner's sword, kingdom's crown that changed hands often )? Is the issue that skin is just too visceral and it was easier for university to 'remove skin' than hire less squeamish help?
In a similar vain, there are a lot of skeletons and organs collected from dead mental patients in universities that did not get proper consent.
edit: next step, harvard ppl studying the consent about random ossuaires in France https://www.cntraveler.com/galleries/2014-10-24/10-creepiest...
It’s a historical artifact. The change adds a historical significance. The symbolic value is minimal vs the information.
It’s a book.
Just reading the title alone heightened my sensibilities as it immediately reminded me of such Nazis atrocities where they made objects out of the skin of their victims.
That was my emotional self talking and I'd expect it would always be my initial reaction, but when my rational self kicked in moments later I immediately asked what motivated these Harvard idiots to so act, was it out of some kind of perverse political correctness? If not, then what was their motivation?
It seems to me these people are both unprofessional and irresponsible and should not be charged with the responsibility of housing and managing important historical items. The principal responsibilities of museums is to preserve historical artifacts in their original unaltered form as is best possible and keep them safely housed for posterity and for the benefit and education of future generations.
It is not the job of museums to alter museum pieces because they don't like some aspect about them, and to do so clearly smacks of vandalism. If an institution is so offended by some object in its collection then it can either remove it from normal viewing and make it only available to researchers, or alternatively, give it to another museum that does not take offense (there'll always be others willing to take the object off their hands).
Let's put this book into perspective. There are aspects about it that are deemed sordid by today's ethical standards but that does not devalue its historical significance, in fact a knowledge and understanding of how the object acquired these attributes make it all the more important from an historical perspective, ipso facto it will also be more valuable. Vandalizing it will make it less so on every account.
Now let's compare the historical aspects of this book with other objects commonly found in many museums that also could be deemed to have 'sordid' backgrounds. If other museums similarly applied Harvard's sanctimonious ethical attitudes to this class of items in their collections then many thousands of objects would have to be withdrawn from display.
For instance, modern and ancient weapons of war—guns, howitzers, Roman, Greek and Viking swords, and a myriad of other things whose very existence—their raison d'être—is based on ethical standards that many of us today would now consider abhorrent and repugnant but we don't alter or destroy them.
Similarly, after WWII we didn't destroy hideous places such as Auschwitz and Buchenwald but kept them for their great historical significance and to remind present and future generations of the horrors that took place there.
What I find outrageous is that these days many professionals find it acceptable to try to 'correct' history (as in the case of this Harvard book). Why they cannot see and just accept that ethical and societal values were very different in the past than now—and that every era had its own standards and ethical values, many of which were brutal.
Over recent decades there's a collective lemming-like cultural attitude developed amongst many professionals who ought to know better, they refuse to criticize idiocy and outright hypocrisy even at the expense of both their professionalism and their professions, and they often so act out of fear of being labeled politically incorrect.
I'm damned if I know how these people can ditch logic and reason and still live with their consciences.
Still, if the human remains are an issue, well - in numerous ritual burials of rulers, there are remains of servants or concubines. In most cases, we can assume it was not consensual.
In this case - should we cremate (or otherwise destroy, according to our contemporary customs) these human remains?
I was lead to believe that Harvard was where smart people were. The simple thing to do would be to remove the book from circulation, not destroy the thing that made it interesting.
If not, then it seems that academia has jumped the shark. It was fine, in their own worlds, for academics to turn themselves into reverent peal-clutching guests of the King, pathologically afraid of disputation, insult and offence (or, how extreme: challenging students).
But the world isnt theres...