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Comment by fullstackchris | Hacker News Reader

so... what are you supposed to do if you have a full time job?

I have an 8 month old and am full time while mum's on maternity leave. When the baby was ill recently, at times he wouldn't sleep unless he was being held by a standing person. I'm not kidding - there were nights where sitting or lying down as gently as possible would wake him up. We ended up doing half-night shifts where I'd have him from 8pm to 2am and then mum would take him from 2am-8am. I'd wake up at 8am, put him in the carrier for a nap while mum napped as well (30-60 mins) and then start work.

How parents in the US do it when maternity is only 12 weeks unpaid... I have no idea!

I caught shit from my ex-employer when out latest was born because I wanted to take 2 weeks off. 2 weeks. It was part of my review that year before I even took the time off.

I left that company the same day. We lived VERY lean for a year or so while I figured out a new direction. Thank Christ for a supportive family.

That's just awful. As a new parent I'm so much more keenly appreciative of these kinds of struggles. I found 4 weeks of pat leave and a very gentle re-introduction to work very challenging, let alone bringing up an infant without an income. I'm glad that you had family around to support you and that you did indeed find a new direction (which it sounds like you did).

As a dad I only had 1 month of paternity leave and I still found it incredibly difficult to go back to work(not because of work, but because my son needed a lot of support and I wasn't able to provide it). 2 weeks would be literally impossible, I think I'd resign.

And coming from the nordics I wonder how the parents in the rest of Europe do it when there is barely any paternity leave.

Yes, I'm very jealous of what you get, "up north". Some companies in the UK are generous - I hear Google (or at least DeepMind) provides 3 months - but some dads in my antenatal class only got a single week off. And some of the mums went back to work after 6 months, putting the baby in nursery at that age.

UK is weirdly crap at it compared to other European countries. Dads only get 2 weeks at statutory pay(like £150 a week), mums can take a full year but they get progressively less with time, where if I remember correctly after the first 3 months they only get statutory pay(about £600 a month) then in the last 3 months they get absolutely nothing. So yeah, no surprise women are getting back to work sooner - the financial penalty for staying on maternity leave is huge.

I'm not sure if her company is particularly generous, but my wife is getting 3 months at something like 80 or 90% pay, then 6 months stat pay, then 3 months nothing. Fortunately she still accrues annual leave during the year, which means we do have the option of covering the final month at full pay. We're going to try to tough it out and tack a month of leave on at the end instead.

How old is/are your kid/s now if you don't mind me asking? And did you have another one after the terrible sleeper? I only ask because we're now in that phase of trying to decide whether having another one is what we want.

Sorry for the late reply - our kid turns 3 next month.

And nope, I'm very much against having another one, exactly because the first one was such a bad sleeper, every time I start thinking whether to have another child I remember sitting on the floor and literally crying because I was so exhausted and he just wouldn't sleep, or doing something and just knowing that he will wake up in an hour and there is nothing I can do to prevent that. It was absolutely awful and I don't want to take that risk again.

Having said that......he is an absolute angel now. Very bright, very cuddly, loves to play and hug and definitely reciprocates all the love we give him. So I do sometimes think "wouldn't it be great to have another" - and then I remember again.

Thanks for the reply. I think that is a common theme - first kid being a bad sleeper makes a second kid much less likely. We're on the tail end of an illness now and he's rarely going for more than 1-2 hours without attention. And he's never regularly slept for more than 45 mins in a nap. It must be a huge difference in quality of life if you know that they're going down for a 2 hour afternoon nap. You can nap yourself, or get a workout in or something. That said, I've heard nightmare stories even at your daughter's age. One friend couple of ours has a 3 yr old who wakes up between 2 and 4 am every night, and needs playing with and reading to.

> I remember sitting on the floor and literally crying

I feel this, and it's still like that for me sometimes. Last night I shouted "Just go to sleep!" at him, I got so frustrated and upset because he kept taking his own dummy out of his mouth and waking himself up. I'm really hoping that once he starts either crawling or walking he'll burn off that energy and sleep better.

This is why I love Germany, because you don't have to ask questions like this. You have the right to take a year off (or more) as a father and mother and the state pays you.

What the parent comment is suggesting is every second night one person gets a solid night sleep.

It's a great strategy for survival. We did this a lot with our second child and still so sometimes if there is a patch of disrupted sleep.

The person with the child is not getting zero sleep. A small baby can't stay awake for an entire night. So you could get two or three hours in small batches.

You are exhausted the next day, but at least you have the following night to recover.

If you have a full time job you just do your job. You are really tired and not operating at 100℅ but you get through and it is better than having 2 or 3 hours broken sleep every night.

It will be a challenge for a few months, but as other parents pointed out, it will improve over time. My advice is, if you plan to have kids, then try to reduce any other factors of stress, such as work-related, as much as possible, because your kid requires full attention, especially in the beginning.

My experience as a working parent has been that you just have to muddle through some days one way or the other. (But taking longer shifts like GP mentioned works way better than trying to split the difference within a single night.)

Answer A (because capitalism is for sociopaths): Sleep train

Answer B: Work harder on the days you have energy.

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