Hacker News Reader

Comment by gambiting | Hacker News Reader

I feel you - our son had about 6 months(from ~4 months old until 10 months old) where he just wouldn't sleep for more than an hour at the time, then would wake up screaming and it took at least 30-40 minutes to put him back to sleep. I think in that period me and my wife were actual zombies, just didn't get any sleep at all, there was a point where I thought to myself I haven't had more than 2 hours of continious unbroken sleep for few months, and that there is no way this can be healthy lol.

Also, I know saying this now doesn't help, because at the moment you are in one of the most "intense" periods of their development where they need all of your attention but give relatively little back - but that will improve. They will eventually sleep better and they will start telling you how much they love you and kiss you goodnight - and then all of those early months are forgotten :-)

View on HN

I can relate, sleep deprivation can have serious health effects. We did night shifts on cycles every other day, where one parent slept through the night on the couch with hearing protection, while the other stayed with the baby in the bedroom. This method worked out quite well. The advantage is that the parent who slept on the couch has more energy during the day for the child and can enjoy the time more, which is also beneficial for the child.

so... what are you supposed to do if you have a full time job?

I have an 8 month old and am full time while mum's on maternity leave. When the baby was ill recently, at times he wouldn't sleep unless he was being held by a standing person. I'm not kidding - there were nights where sitting or lying down as gently as possible would wake him up. We ended up doing half-night shifts where I'd have him from 8pm to 2am and then mum would take him from 2am-8am. I'd wake up at 8am, put him in the carrier for a nap while mum napped as well (30-60 mins) and then start work.

How parents in the US do it when maternity is only 12 weeks unpaid... I have no idea!

I caught shit from my ex-employer when out latest was born because I wanted to take 2 weeks off. 2 weeks. It was part of my review that year before I even took the time off.

I left that company the same day. We lived VERY lean for a year or so while I figured out a new direction. Thank Christ for a supportive family.

That's just awful. As a new parent I'm so much more keenly appreciative of these kinds of struggles. I found 4 weeks of pat leave and a very gentle re-introduction to work very challenging, let alone bringing up an infant without an income. I'm glad that you had family around to support you and that you did indeed find a new direction (which it sounds like you did).

As a dad I only had 1 month of paternity leave and I still found it incredibly difficult to go back to work(not because of work, but because my son needed a lot of support and I wasn't able to provide it). 2 weeks would be literally impossible, I think I'd resign.

And coming from the nordics I wonder how the parents in the rest of Europe do it when there is barely any paternity leave.

Yes, I'm very jealous of what you get, "up north". Some companies in the UK are generous - I hear Google (or at least DeepMind) provides 3 months - but some dads in my antenatal class only got a single week off. And some of the mums went back to work after 6 months, putting the baby in nursery at that age.

UK is weirdly crap at it compared to other European countries. Dads only get 2 weeks at statutory pay(like £150 a week), mums can take a full year but they get progressively less with time, where if I remember correctly after the first 3 months they only get statutory pay(about £600 a month) then in the last 3 months they get absolutely nothing. So yeah, no surprise women are getting back to work sooner - the financial penalty for staying on maternity leave is huge.

I'm not sure if her company is particularly generous, but my wife is getting 3 months at something like 80 or 90% pay, then 6 months stat pay, then 3 months nothing. Fortunately she still accrues annual leave during the year, which means we do have the option of covering the final month at full pay. We're going to try to tough it out and tack a month of leave on at the end instead.

How old is/are your kid/s now if you don't mind me asking? And did you have another one after the terrible sleeper? I only ask because we're now in that phase of trying to decide whether having another one is what we want.

Sorry for the late reply - our kid turns 3 next month.

And nope, I'm very much against having another one, exactly because the first one was such a bad sleeper, every time I start thinking whether to have another child I remember sitting on the floor and literally crying because I was so exhausted and he just wouldn't sleep, or doing something and just knowing that he will wake up in an hour and there is nothing I can do to prevent that. It was absolutely awful and I don't want to take that risk again.

Having said that......he is an absolute angel now. Very bright, very cuddly, loves to play and hug and definitely reciprocates all the love we give him. So I do sometimes think "wouldn't it be great to have another" - and then I remember again.

Thanks for the reply. I think that is a common theme - first kid being a bad sleeper makes a second kid much less likely. We're on the tail end of an illness now and he's rarely going for more than 1-2 hours without attention. And he's never regularly slept for more than 45 mins in a nap. It must be a huge difference in quality of life if you know that they're going down for a 2 hour afternoon nap. You can nap yourself, or get a workout in or something. That said, I've heard nightmare stories even at your daughter's age. One friend couple of ours has a 3 yr old who wakes up between 2 and 4 am every night, and needs playing with and reading to.

> I remember sitting on the floor and literally crying

I feel this, and it's still like that for me sometimes. Last night I shouted "Just go to sleep!" at him, I got so frustrated and upset because he kept taking his own dummy out of his mouth and waking himself up. I'm really hoping that once he starts either crawling or walking he'll burn off that energy and sleep better.

Answer A (because capitalism is for sociopaths): Sleep train

Answer B: Work harder on the days you have energy.

It will be a challenge for a few months, but as other parents pointed out, it will improve over time. My advice is, if you plan to have kids, then try to reduce any other factors of stress, such as work-related, as much as possible, because your kid requires full attention, especially in the beginning.

This is why I love Germany, because you don't have to ask questions like this. You have the right to take a year off (or more) as a father and mother and the state pays you.

My experience as a working parent has been that you just have to muddle through some days one way or the other. (But taking longer shifts like GP mentioned works way better than trying to split the difference within a single night.)

What the parent comment is suggesting is every second night one person gets a solid night sleep.

It's a great strategy for survival. We did this a lot with our second child and still so sometimes if there is a patch of disrupted sleep.

The person with the child is not getting zero sleep. A small baby can't stay awake for an entire night. So you could get two or three hours in small batches.

You are exhausted the next day, but at least you have the following night to recover.

If you have a full time job you just do your job. You are really tired and not operating at 100℅ but you get through and it is better than having 2 or 3 hours broken sleep every night.

We just slept with our son in bed and didn't have a fraction of the problems in this department.

This should be obvious, but you also had a different child.

Our oldest child wouldn't sleep until we got him not only out of the bed but the bassinet all the way out of the room.

Our second child slept like a baby pretty much whenever.

Our third did fine in the bassinet, but now that she's older and transferred to the nursery she wakes up if even the slightest bit of light comes in through her door.

Kids are wildly different from one another from a very young age. I wouldn't assume that your cosleeping is the cause of your having fewer sleep troubles. If anything it might be the reverse.

Makes you wonder where "sleep like a baby" comes from, because it definitely seems like only some babies are great sleepers.

Older babies do tend to sleep very soundly though!

It could also mean that you wake up every 2 hours and crap your pants crying! That’s why it’s such a great term - it can mean almost anything.

One thing I learnt a while ago is that every child is different and that everyone(me included!) love to extrapolate their own experiences on everyone else.

But yes, in hindsight I would probably try some form of co-sleeping, even though everyone around us was advising against it(too much of a risk).

I've dug into the studies on the co-sleeping risks.

It turns out that co-sleeping is a risky thing if you are on drugs or are drunk.

If you are 100% sober, then it's perfectly fine. If you are high, or have had a drink, or are on some sort of flu medication (NyQuil, then the risks start ratcheting up.

So, since we're most worried about the parents that do drugs and drink around their infants, the common advice is to no co-sleep. It makes sense, I totally agree with that tack, but if you are willing to be 100% sober of all drugs and alcohol, then try co-sleeping and see how it goes.

I didn't co-sleep with my first because of the warnings about co-sleeping. Instead I'd fall asleep in my office chair with my feet propped up on the coffee table.

Finally realized that I was going to fall asleep somewhere and did the same research. Co-sleeping sober ( and with a healthy BMI ) is safe and often better than sleeping somewhere else. We don't all have the money and space for cutesy recliners.

I also have always slept with our child in our bed. This hasn't done much for my sleep.

First child was terrible, she preferred having a bit of space I think, and she would flip around in the bed so you'd be constantly woken up with a foot in the face etc.

Second child did like to sleep in the bed and still does, though now we are trying to break the habit.

Each child is different and even one child can change a lot through different developmental stages.

> there was a point where I thought to myself I haven't had more than 2 hours of continious unbroken sleep for few months

Omg same, but for more than 2 years, because I'm a breastfeeding mom. Idk how this is healthy or normal!

Reply on news.ycombinator.com