Comment by Dalewyn | Hacker News Reader

Comment by Dalewyn | Hacker News Reader

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The brutal reality is people tend to discriminate those in a different social class. It's nothing as blatant as Indian Caste, but it's reality. This goes both ways too, upper discriminating lower and vice versa, and it transcends cultures.

For a practical example, nearly every single Black man who succeed(ed) in America doesn't speak so-called "Negro English", they all speak "normal" English. President Obama is perhaps the most familiar example. I have no doubt at least some of this is them putting on an act to demonstrate they are in the same social class as their would-be peers.

And on the other side of that coin, lower class Black men generally disparage characteristics of the higher classes such as being educated and carrying yourself more formally.

For better or worse, if you want to join a different social class you have to put up some act to get your foot in the door. Otherwise you'll be kicked right out. It's brutally unfortunate, but humans (and all living beings in general) prefer those who are alike and disdain those who aren't.

Hell, the audience here should look at themselves in a mirror: White shirt upper-middle class discriminating the elite upper class and the commonly middle and lower classes is everywhere. Screw those MBAs, amirite? The problem is Joe over there doesn't understand tech, amirite?

You're not getting it. The "act" becomes you, you become the "act". The commenter I answered is not from a different social class anymore, he's just remembering. Just as you "act" grown up when you're growing up, then gradually you are grown up and that is you.

And Obama? What makes you believe he would speak "Negro English"? He is not from that background.

The truth is that people can't really join a different social class without fundamentally belonging to that class. And belonging to a class depends on what you presently do and have, not what you did or had in your past. If the commenter was not a software engineer, no acting of his could fool people for a long time. With the exception for expert con-men. So even though he might feel as if he's faking it, the part that really counts is real.

The presumably desired end result is you joining the new class, so yes you will naturally "become the act" at the end. My point is you need to put on that act to get your foot in the door at all, otherwise chances are good you'll get shooed away for no justifiable reason.

The number one mistake I see people make in their life is giving importance to how other people treat them. How another person acts towards you only says something about that individual. It doesn't say anything about you and it doesn't say anything about any "class" or other group of people.

I've been treated as shit thousands of times in my life, for no reason, and treated well ten times more, also for no reason. We get these things in our heads that it's about us and that we're the victims of a world of discrimination, but what it was in reality is that we met some rude people and some jerks.

To get your foot into the door at all, as you mentioned, you have to demonstrate some value. Is that an act? I wouldn't say it is. I would even say that many people will have more patience and be more open to you if you're from a different background than them, or if you're young. The demands to be considered a part of polite society are usually low, so that anybody who wants to participate can enter. Politeness is first, which is free to learn and free to execute. Apart from that you need clean clothes and a clean person. Does that mean other people have to like you? No. If you're from a rough background and move into a different rough neighborhood, the people there will not necessarily like you either.

Class is intersectional. If I, an advanced PhD level educated scientist person spent the rest of my life toiling in a restaurant kitchen, I am both working class but retain many intellectual and social advantages conferred by my past background and life experiences.

The point is that social class analysis is not like high school set theory or naive OOP class declarations. The "proletariat" or "capitalist" classes are more about aggregate social phenomena rather than localizable in each individual. Each individual has characteristics of both working-class and capitalist roles. This is true of all social class categories.

That happened thanks to modern society being so egalitarian. Class boundaries were much clearer historically than today, with legal rights being tied to class.

You don't become the "act". You become ground down from the "act". What this comment said about being punished by peers and family for trying to educate myself and other people in this position trying to educate themselves, is correct. That happened to me.

It depends on how comfortable you are in the "act". Well, you aren't. But it's conceivable that someone likes the customs of a different class.

> being punished by peers and family for trying to educate myself and other people in this position trying to educate themselves

Well yeah, that does suck and it's a terrible thing to do.

Around here, if anything, MBAs are categorized along with Joe in your example. (Although many of us have MBAs)

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