CBD products don't ease pain and are potentially harmful – new study finds | Hacker News Reader

CBD products don't ease pain and are potentially harmful – new study finds

bath.ac.uk

21 pointsthisislife222 comments

For those of us pain patients who had their opioid-based medication taken "because of the opioid epidemic" (even though we did nothing wrong and had been stable for many years or even decades) and were just told to "use cannabis" by all the non-pain patients on the internet, and when we said "cannabis doesn't work for me" and you called us liars or said we are using it wrong, this study is not a big surprise.

Meanwhile people I know have been driven to suicide as their only (legal) option to escape the pain, or spending their food money for illegal opioids that might do nothing for you at best or kill you at worst (fentanyl), instead of having reasonable lives and getting safe and known medication from a pharmacy. And these are people who did nothing wrong and hurt nobody. I suspect history is not going to look back kindly on the people who have mismanaged this in such a grotesque and inhumane way (such as politicians and bureaucrats who waved a magic wand and decided that all doctors should scale some percentage of patients down or face legal threats from the DEA or FDA and possibly loss of license), under the guise of trying to help.

1. This sounds harsh at first, but carry on it is actually on your side; But - just the typical nerd "akshully" first. cannabis is not cbd. cannabis does not work for everyone. nor do opioids. (the worst part for my friend who had to take care of her friend who was dying of cancer where opioids didn't work :() pushers can diaf (weed or others)

2. here is the meat (if there is any in my opinion). my roomie has similar issues/fears. there is a horrible situation with how opioids are handled in this country. there are a lot of stupid people who think weed solves everything. statistically, weed DOES help on mass level (at least so far that we've seen). That doesn't mean it will work for everyone, nor that it's a panacea, nor that we should treat people suffering chronic pain issues who are able to maintain with a proper medical regime. neither side is "evil" and we should stop fighting each other, when there should be support for both sides out of compassion. Too often advocates (I mean weed here) end up sounding like religious zealots.

We need sane legalization and proper medicalization of both cannabinoids and opioids without the hype cycles and evil actors in both legal and illicit channels. Having family members commit suicide due to chronic pain and mental health issues, this is an important issue to me, and it's infuriating to see well meaning people on both sides end up hurting the people who need help the most with illinformed and positions that seem more to satisfy their sense of self-superiority than actually finding solutions to help people.

Not surprising, especially given non-existent "supplement" regulation. This problem is two-fold, it doesn't regulate what's actually bought as "CBD", and it doesn't require any clinical evidence of effectivity even when it actually is CBD,

IMHO, the only reason we see so many CBD products on the market is because THC is illegal, but CBD is not. So companies can glom onto the known medical benefits of cannabis, in places where THC is illegal, but totally bogus CBD supplements with no clinical evidence of effectiveness are not.

After using marijuana for ~50 years, it's very clear to me that a good deal of the mental stress relief and minor chronic pain relief benefits are _because_ of the psychoactive nature of the plant. Trying to remove these components (primarily THC) is defeating the purpose.

Somehow it's totally socially acceptable to kick back a few beers to unwind after work, but somehow marijuana is a "dangerous drug"? (never mind alcohol's addictiveness, liver damage and increased incidence of violent behavior)

Similar process is happening now with licensing of hallucinogenics for therapeutic purposes.

"You would have every right to be offended if someone said your pain was all in your head. But the truth is, pain is constructed entirely in the brain. This doesn’t mean your pain is any less real – it’s just that your brain literally creates what your body feels, and in cases of chronic pain, your brain helps perpetuate it."

( via https://www.arthritis.org/health-wellness/healthy-living/man... )

"Is Pain a Construct of the Mind?"

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-pain-construct...

https://archive.md/b5r6S

What are you getting at with these articles?

Any bot could post some (partially) related links. If you're real, what point are you trying to make?

"There is no evidence that CBD products reduce chronic pain"

Except for the millions of people who swear that it does

Honestly, looks like they cherry picked all the studies that show no association and say there's no evidence. This is sample hacking, not science.

Not picking a side on this issue... but there's millions of people who will swear all kinds of things

I think you're missing the point. If millions say CBD reduces their pain, then CBD reduces pain. I think the proper scientific attitude should be "we don't understand how CBD reduces pain. We can't find a physical basis for it, but there may be a psychological effect that changes the perception of pain to make it more acceptable"

You've never heard of the Placebo Effect, have you?

I thought about it but what I am saying is different from the Placebo Effect

I thought about it but it isn't.

(Just poking fun at your "argument".)

So you think I thought about it after ulfw mentioned it and decided it I wasn't talking about the Placebo effect when I meant I thought about it before ulfw mentioned it and decided it wasn't but can't articulate now why what I said is not the Placebo effect but rather a mechanism which alters perceptions that we don't understand that is quite different from inert sugar pills that provide a purely psychological response?

(I hope that clears things up lol)

The problem is without a control you can't tell the difference between whatever you are describing and the placebo effect.

I see. I am not a scientist, so thanks for letting me know.

Duh. Topical CBD products are 99.99% health & wellness scams. CBD is very difficult to absorb, and these "CBD" products typically contain such tiny amounts that are biologically inconsequential. And CBD really isn't for pain, it's more useful for relaxation. Some people also prefer the legally gray/less than legal delta-8- and delta-9-THC, but I prefer CBD and damiana tea.

If someone wanted real CBD at an affordable price, buy it pure from a CBD wholesaler lab in bulk and make their own sublingual tincture that contains a precise amount, say 2 mg per drop from a specific dropper. Get a good milligram scale and MCT oil.

Say this is true. I have serious doubts, especially on the seemingly interchangeable uses of 'pain' and 'chronic pain' - but even so:

CBD is still extremely helpful in pain management, because it balances out THC's more paranoid effects, smoothing the high and making it last longer. No one can seriously deny that THC helps with pain management, although the medical industry and the FDA did claim this for decades against their own analyses.

The article itself is written as a cannabis hit piece, which gives me more misgivings. "Ooh, there might be THC in your CBD!" Ok - how much? 0.1%? 0.2%? In the study they claim "as much as" 100 mg - per gram? per dose?

I'm fine with regulating CBD for safety - 100% on board. However, this article reeks, and the "study" is highly questionable.

For example, tfa claims "A meta-analysis (which combines data from multiple studies and plays a fundamental role in evidence-based healthcare) links CBD to increased rates of serious adverse events, including liver toxicity."

But there's no meta analysis about liver toxicity. There's one study, where 7% of people have elevated liver enzymes, more than placebo. Not technically incorrect, but dishonest.

The study talks about "pharmacautical CBD", and then immediately conflates this with commercial products which "contain untested synthetic chemicals".

There are red flags upon red flags. Cherries picked here, there and everywhere.

There's not really any solid justification for the article's breathless claim that "consumers would do well to steer clear of these products". The authors of the study say things like "there’s a complete lack of quality evidence that it has any positive effects", but this is contradicted by their own research. Not a good sign of unbiased research.

Probably a puff piece, paid for by big alcohol and tobacco...

It's not unthinkable, though perhaps not so direct and clear cut.

> The world’s largest brewer, AB InBev, has awarded scholarships to Bath students for over six years, helping those from low-income backgrounds with essential financial support, paid internships and the chance to gain invaluable business and employability experience.

- https://www.bath.ac.uk/campaigns/our-corporate-partners/

Top 'partners' also listed on the page include Johnsons Health and Day Lewis Pharmacy.

I never took CBD oil for any physical pain, so im just asking out of curiosity: Does CBD oil not act like pain killer for any immediate relief? I always thought it acts like local analgesic, is that not the case?

The article makes CBD oil sounds almost like a snake oil

Hmm. It seemed to help a lot as a topical ointment for my sunburn.

sponsored by makers of advil and tylenol ?

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