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Comment by optimalsolver | Hacker News Reader

Reminder. Psychedelics can also lead to extremely traumatic experiences:

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=23788

This doesn’t get mentioned in the current “psychedelics as a cure-all” hype wave.

Aren't people always talking about set and setting, after-trip integration, not taking them if there is a history of mental illness, not being on SSRIs, etc? If anyone at any time is telling people that something doesn't come with some sort of risk, they're either lying or ignorant. Especially true when it comes with the mind.

Also, reading this linked person's comment, they were on DMT and it sounds like they have some strong ideas about how the universe works (they mention having been to "heaven" before and keep mentioning hell and evil and devils as if they are real). Yes, people should be careful, especially when they have issues with mental health.

DMT is related to LSD (they're both tryptamines). I think DMT made them hallucinate those things which is why they talk "as if they are real" - that's something they felt like they genuinely experienced, which is what made it so traumatic.

As for the heaven thing, I do not know if they were particularly susceptible to delusions before ever taking anything, but if they were, then it was probably not the right choice, yeah.

It's hard to be self-aware about delusions if you don't know they're delusions. It's definitely possible though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU8VmJsX6-s

Oh for sure, I'm well aware of what DMT is like and I know it's very easy to get confused by things that come up during those trips since they are so vivid, which is why integration is important. He also took 60mg, which is on the high end of a strong dose afaik.

I've wondered if it would be useful to approach psychedelics similar to the way that meditation is taught in vajrayana lineages, where you have to do preliminary mind trainings before you start advancing to other practices. If you encounter "hell" in a bad trip, like the person in the post, but have no way to understand it, it's easy to believe in it literally.

I just watched a few minutes of that video you linked and I'll definitely watch it later, he seems very lucid about his delusions, thanks!

That's not been my experience, warnings about set and setting and being in the right headspace are pretty typical. It might not be mentioned in popsci articles but they're not expecting you to go out and actually take any.

The second time I took LSD, I had visions of rending flesh, falling endlessly into a vortex of gore. That was the mandala that time. This was mixed with dreamscape fantasies of conquest and rape on grandiose scale, a Roman emperor, slicing down hordes, restructuring time in a slash of blood, a ball of divine destruction held in potential, ready to be unleashed at any time. It was sexually arousing.

Some might rationalize this, as getting a better grip on one's Jungian shadow. I sometimes view the experience that way, but sometimes I wonder if it slightly loosened some important retaining bolt. I'm pretty sure negative vibes can come out of the Pandora's psychedelic box, too. Also, this variability in effect hinders using it therapeutically. It's hard to "guide" a trip, and no one really trips in the same way twice.

Was that a heroic dose? I've had some strong visuals, but I've never been blasted into full blown hallucinations on LSD.

Not op, but I've done heroic doses a few times (and lesser ones too).

You don't need a heroic dose for ego death (but it probably helps). You could be listening to music in a dark room or with closed eyes, on a medium-high dose and you suddenly start disassociating.

Also, you don't normally hallucinate in the same way media portrays it (there are drugs that make you hallucinate though) AFAIK (none of my friends or I hallucinated on psilocybin/LSD; I wouldn't call DMT hallucinations either). Ego death trips are more conceptual than purely visual, but there's a strong visual aspect to it too.

I had had 15-20 ‘normal’ trips and then one (probs around 250mcg, but during Covid when I was totally spent and my ‘intention’ was to let go and wash away the stresses) where I was just ‘not there’. I had some pretty intense/scary visuals/thoughts, but what was terrifying to my partner and friend there was I was bumping into walls and just muttering. I had a new respect for why they call it chemically induced schizophrenia, I was just not home for 2 hours. Afterwards it wasn’t the worst thing in the world, but I had a massive newfound respect and have been very cautious with tbe dose (and intention!) the few times subsequently

Are heroic doses supposed to do something special? LSD always feels the same to me, whether it's 100ug or 500ug. Higher doses just last longer, but aren't any more intense.

If you're taking 500ug and it just seems longer, I would question if you're actually taking acid or the dosage. That's like 5ish+ hits my dude. Yes, it should be much more intense (and longer). However, you do need to take it all at once. If you wait a couple hours and re-dose, it does just make it last longer.

I'm certain it's LSD25 because if it were anything else (like NBOMe) I would have died by overdose by now. I'm aware the typical dose is 100μg. I've taken up to 600μg before (yes all at once), and it'll keep me wide awake for 24 hours straight but the actual trip itself won't be that much more intense.

I'm autistic and have ADHD so it might affect me differently than the typical person. I don't necessarily like it that way (I would love one of the super-intense experiences that people tend to get really excited over) but so far I haven't been able to cause a particularly strong effect. Very curious why I'm either more resistant to it or more tolerant of it to the point of being underwhelmed.

Don't get me wrong, it's still a very nice experience that I like to partake in every couple weeks. The first time I did LSD (100μg) I got HPPD for about a week, sometimes I wish it never went away. Being sober is so boring!

If you're getting it from the same source, you might want to test it. That doesn't sound right. It should be metabolized well before 24 hours. 6 hits of acid shouldn't last that long, and I'm not sure any dose can.

Two different sources, exact same effect.

That's interesting (that you felt the disturbing images as arousing). I work at an ayahuasca center that works in a traditional lineage. One thing that often needs to be energetically cleaned from people is something we refer to as "lobo" ("wolf" in Spanish), or neino (Shipibo for river otter), both considered to be somewhat voracious animals. This is the spirit of unhealthy desires, often sexual in nature. It manifests in a variety of ways, often images of sea creatures. When it is most intense it appears as very bloody and gratuitous violence, bloody animal teeth etc.

I cannot upvote this enough. Having a bad trip is plainly one of the most horrible experiences of my life

I agree with this but I found it to be an extremely valuable experience all the same.

Like driving a car or taking a flight can lead to death. Sure, what are the chances?

Could be very large, even close to 1, depending on how you react to it

Sure? It could be bad for you if it’s bad for you, but the factors and reactions are pretty varied. Taking psychedelics is kind of like driving up a mountain - if it’s storming (anxiety etc.) and/or your lights are out (preconceptions, psychosis), you’re more likely to end up in a bad state, but there’s still the chance of making it to a scenic view, and the people who do get a pretty significant (learning) experience out of it.

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