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Comment by noirscape | Hacker News Reader

They do, but Xbox isn't considered a large enough market to be considered a gatekeeper affected by the DMA. None of the major console makers are.

The platform must have any of the following to be a DMA gatekeeper:

* Market capitalization of at least €75 billion.

* More than €7.5 billion turnover from EEA residents.

* At least 45 million customers in EEA.

* At least 4.5 million business customers in EEA.

Once any of those criteria are met for 3 years, they qualify as a Gatekeeper. While the gaming market is massive, any individual console platform still sits pretty comfortably below those criteria. You can find the customer number by googling around a bit - Xbox only has around 3 million active customers if I'm not mistaken (counted by Xbox Live accounts that were active in the past year).

A platform truly needs to be collosal to be considered a Gatekeeper. This law is specifically for the large platforms, not small fry.

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> Xbox only has around 3 million active customers

This seems very low given:

> As of 2022, Microsoft announced around 120 million monthly active users (MAUs).

Mind that Xbox is much smaller outside the US and the UK compared to the other console makers.

From the top of my head, the percentage counts for Europe in console market share are around 50/40/10 (Nintendo/Sony/Xbox).

So yes, they probably have 120 million MAUs globally, but the overwhelming majority of those will be coming from the US, where Xbox controls about half the console market. (Just for completeness sake: Xbox has almost no presence in Asia, South America or Africa - their failures in Asia are well documented and Xbox does no advertising whatsoever in South America whilst the African gaming market isn't large enough to be worth considering since there are other priorities there). And of course, those users aren't considered for EU legislation since the US isn't part of the EEA.

Interesting enough, back in the ps3/ps4 days everyone in my corner of Eastern Europe seemed to have gone for an xbox (and maybe even an xbox 360).

In the past few years, the xboxes were always in stock while people were joining waiting lists and lotteries * for the PS5.

* One large electronics chain actually had a lottery for the PS5 preorders at launch, because they weren't getting enough to cover what was already paid for! Some lucky people got a PS5 the rest got their money back :)

Every generation has the "most piracy friendly console" and that one often does quite well, for that and other reasons.

The Xbox was king there for awhile.

That too. I guess people have got used to paying for games now and are picking the console based on exclusives/general experience.

In my mind the xbox is for dudebro shooters and the playstation is for original, creative games. Things may have changed from the original xbox but it's too late for me.

Halo and XBMC really shaped (at least) my perception of the consoles even to this day; but I got an Xbox X because it plays blu-ray and was in stock.

Later I learned the PS5 can't even play CDs so maybe I dodged a tiny bullet.

Of course, most of the actual gaming happens on the Switch, but if it's cross-platform I'll probably get it on the Xbox (Hogwarts, for example).

> Halo and XBMC really shaped (at least) my perception of the consoles even to this day; but I got an Xbox X because it plays blu-ray and was in stock.

Sorry. I played the windows port of the first Halo until some level with a jeep. I got lost in it, didn't know where to go, and I abandoned it. I kinda weaned myself off shooters (except Serious Sam) about then, or with some return to castle wolfenstein game which i found about as boring. And that was even before cover based shooters...

As for XBMC... I don't like having a noisy power hungry box on when I watch a movie. Had different solutions, right now using a Chromecast.

> Of course, most of the actual gaming happens on the Switch

It's interesting from the outside how Nintendo has captured the minds of gamers everywhere where they grew up with those gameboys and NESes...

Me, I grew up with ZX Spectrum clones that were 'just a computer'. Then I got different computers. Fine. Not really a fan of a platform.

They seem to be going to PC, at least assuming few people are replacing consoles with mobile gaming. [1] I gamed on consoles for nearly 3 decades, but I don't understand the current appeal. 'Back in the day', consoles were heavily subsidized loss leaders, and launched with extremely high end hardware. The video card in the original XBox was not only a beast, but also worth substantially more than the entire console was sold for!

At the same time PC gaming was pretty tough. Steam didn't even exist until 2003, and in it's early days - it was little more than a DRM wrapper for Counterstrike. And that was also the era when a new PC was outdated in a few months, and completely obsolete in a few years. Now we're in the era where consoles launch with midrange PC hardware sold at a markup to hit profitability ASAP, console games have things like day 1 patches/ad-filled dashboards/pay to use your own internet/etc, PC gaming has become amazingly convenient, and a decent PC from 5 years ago can still run nearly all new games today, with no performance issues whatsoever.

[1] - https://www.visualcapitalist.com/50-years-gaming-history-rev...

> but I don't understand the current appeal.

Well I don't have a gaming video card atm. If i were to get one it would cost as much as i paid for the ps5.

So I play indies and strategy on my pcs and macs (amd APU and a M2) and i get the few AAAs I'm interested in on console. For one a good bunch of them are Sony stuff and either show up on the playstation first or the pc ports are problematic.

For two, if i ever got another Rockstar game, for example, I'll get it on console because Sony doesn't allow the mandatory account crap.

This is what I was getting at. You don't need anywhere even remotely near the cost of a PS5 video card to play AAA at high settings now a days. A quick search for 'ps5 equivalent video card' turns up a Radeon RX 5700 XT, with some people suggesting even less. An RX 5700 XT shows up for $230 on Amazon, so you can probably get it for much less. You can build an entire 'gaming PC' (which is IMO mostly an obsolete term, given what we're talking about here) for less than the cost of a PS5, because all consoles are now a days is midrange PCs at the time they launch.

I also think the era of terribad ports is largely over. PC used to be a relatively small market, and consoles used to run on relatively esoteric hardware which really reached peak weird at the PS3, which greatly complicated ports, even for skilled teams. But since the PS4 era PCs now have more marketshare, and consoles are running lightly customized generic PC hardware, and so porting is much less of an issue. There can definitely be lazy ports, where the devs do things like keep the frame-rate rocked at 30 or whatever, or fail to support ultra-wide resolutions. But in the worst case scenario, you're generally just getting the 'console experience' there.

> An RX 5700 XT shows up for $230 on Amazon, so you can probably get it for much less.

You forgot the noise and maintaining drivers. I'm the kind that used to replace video card fans with passive radiators when that was still possible. If you can't hear the vacuum cleaner because you play with headphones, good for you :)

> I also think the era of terribad ports is largely over.

There are a few gaming companies that "have console in their DNA". No matter if the port does 15 or 1500 fps, they clearly designed for the controller and the 10ft distance on the couch. And there's always some quirk on PC that annoys you if you know how things work on a playstation. I'm not talking about frame rate here.

For example soulsbornes and kojima games. Clearly best enjoyed on a console (Bloodborne is still a Playstation exclusive, and their best IMO), unless you have the 1200 fps fetish.

Edit: hey, looky what I was just reading:

Some of the Nvidia GPUs we tested initially showed rather poor performance, and if you experience serious stuttering you might want to try a full driver clean (we use Display Driver Uninstaller) followed by a reinstall of the latest drivers. We also tested in exclusive fullscreen mode, which seemed to give slightly better performance than the default fullscreen setting.

A review on Tom's Hardware of the Horizon Forbidden West PC port. Needless to say, I've finished it ages ago and had no problems... on the PS5.

The 5700XT seems to do 54 fps average at 1080p, so no 1200 fps fetish for me either if i get one.

Again I think you're going on a bit dated stuff - a lot has changed. Most video cards now a days pretty much silent most of the time - they generally just run a lot cooler than in the past, even when being pushed pretty decently. NVidia has also really dropped the ball in the gaming domain, perhaps because both Sony and Microsoft both use AMD now a days. So take everything I say to have a sort of implied [on AMD] attached at the end.

As for that game you mentioned, the 5700XT is doing 54FPS average on 'very high quality' settings at 1080p - so substantially better than a PS5! The PS4/PS5 uses a checkerboard upscaling to make their resolution claims. So half the pixels are 'real' and half are fudged. So for e.g. '1800p' the hardware itself is only directly rendering a 1600x900 image at well below 'very high' settings, and then interpolating the other half. In general, though, it seems like they did a top notch port - ultra wide resolution, multi monitor support, and more - all at much better performance, and for much less $$$.

One thing to remember is the PS5/Xbox get to play "on the big screen" which is much further from your eyeballs than the average computer monitor.

So it "looks better" just from that.

> So for e.g. '1800p' the hardware itself is only directly rendering a 1600x900 image at well below 'very high' settings, and then interpolating the other half.

I don't have a 4K TV yet :) That's how much I care about having larger numbers.

I can tell you what the appeal is - watching "normies" try to use the Xbox/PS5 compared to the Switch (and even the Switch is sometimes complicatedly annoying for them).

Consoles are still way closer to "plug and play" than even the best PCs. Phones have them beat, however.

> Phones have them beat, however.

But phones sadly don't have games. They only have predatory gambling apps with game skins.

genshin is fun on its own but a friend of mine spends so much money on it that it's honestly terrifying, puts me off of playing it all that much. i would love it if it were $60 and everything was unlockable with a reasonable time investment, or even if it were a sub model like a lot of MMOs

... which is exactly what I was saying.

i misread your intent then, to me at least "gambling apps with game skins" and "fun games with predatory monetisation" are distinct :>

In what way? Gaming on Steam is now: 'search for game', click buy, click play. In 'big picture mode' the entire system becomes console style and all of this can be completely controlled with a controller which is quite handy for couch play! Of course you still have the option of going and fidgeting with config files, installing mods, and tweaking things to your heart's content, but none of this is mandatory.

Most people don't even want to do that (and it is vastly improved from the old days).

I can't find exact numbers, but I would bet that Hogwarts Legacy sold more on consoles (combined) than on PC.

Xbox is rather unimportant in the EU. https://www.vgchartz.com/article/456571/ps5-vs-xbox-series-x...

This is not really Xbox, but also Minecraft, Roblox, windows game pass etc, and it is for the whole world.

Xbox the console is almost non existent among users and in stores here in Europe, it's all Nintendo and PlayStation

I believe the threshold for DMA is 45m MAU inside the EU.

I wonder if the monetary values will be regularly adjusted for inflation. If not, then it’s only a matter of time, waiting for money to be devalued and then the platforms qualify.

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