StarTech Unveils 15-in-1 Thunderbolt 4/USB4 Dock with Quad Display Support | Hacker News Reader

StarTech Unveils 15-in-1 Thunderbolt 4/USB4 Dock with Quad Display Support

anandtech.com

55 pointsPaulHoule61 comments

Gonna have to wait to see how well it works with Linux. It says Ubuntu in the list of operating systems, but then I finally talks about Windows in a bunch of places: https://www.startech.com/en-us/universal-laptop-docking-stat...

"COMPATIBILITY: Supports Windows, macOS & Ubuntu; Works with all Thunderbolt 4/3 and USB4 laptops; Quad display on Windows laptops; Dual display on MacBook Pro (Apple M1/M2/M3 Max & Pro); Single display on MacBook Air"

"IT PRO ADVANTAGES: Includes 3.3ft/1m TB4 host cable; Mounting holes for optional brackets (SSPMSVESA/SSPMSUDWM); K-Slots for lock; Connectivity Tools software w/MAC Address Pass-Through, USB Event Monitoring, WiFi Auto Switching & Windows Layout utilities"

This is ultimately just a bunch of bog standard USB and DisplayPort (even the HDMI is going to look like DisplayPort to the host). It should work as well as any other Thunderbolt dock works in Linux.

There's some room for driver issues, but if it works with "Ubuntu" it almost certainly is fine in that respect assuming you're using a recent enough kernel.

It does say driverless setup. That’s a huge selling point, for me.

I feel like manufacturers still haven't cracked the 3+ monitor code.

My ThinkPad T500 could output to three monitors, way back in 2009 - but you needed to disable Windows' driver signing, and run a custom, patched video driver. Linux on the other hand supported it natively, but you lost the ability to switch between the Intel and AMD graphics cards - it did this by running one display off the Intel card.

Luckily, my daily driver (ThinkPad T460p) outputs to three monitors just fine.

At work, I've specifically requested that I keep my circa-2019 Intel MBP, because it can support three monitors, but at least one of them must be DisplayPort. They're now giving out MBPs with the M2 Pro, but these only support two external monitors at all, and that's a dealbreaker for me.

Ya, they've changed around the monitor support for the M series chips a bit, but at least the M3 Max still supports up to 4 external monitors.

I would buy an extra mac if they made the 15" Macbook Air do 2 external displays + the built in display but I doubt they'll ever put enough display controllers in that chip, or put a Pro chip in the Macbook Air.

My current and last laptop was a Thinkpad T15G gen2 (circa 2021), and even with their triple display dock it could never do triple 4k/60 out of it using linux in any stable fashion, so I really don't know how StarTech is accomplishing this. There's simply not enough bandwidth for 3x displays at 4k/60 let alone 4x, not to mention all the other usb things attaching to the dock. Others do it using the horrible DisplayLink conversion chips that have only ever provided wonky drivers for any platform, worst off of all Linux, where I won't even consider these as a Linux user, but even Windows/Mac tend to be trash.

I don't see DisplayLink listed in their chips on this dock, but I have to wonder if they're using some other chip now, hoping for less suck than for DisplayLink, but would likely require drivers, and thus DOA for Linux (and thus not mentioned in OS support).

The biggest problem with this or most any dock is they can't support DP passive adapters (stated in StarTech docs), which kills most use-cases for using larger format displays as I do (3x 50" curved LCD's). They only have HDMI input, and end up having to use 3x powered adapters that were another ~$100 each, individual power bricks, extra cables, extra mess.

All these docks end up impractical for real world usage sadly. I wish someone might one day consider the possible use cases vs. creating some random crap-gadget that really doesn't work for anyone but the most rare and optimal use cases.

Why this type of Active DP > HDMI adapter without external power for 15€ does not suffice?

https://de.assmann.shop/en/Cables-and-Adapters/Video-Cables-...

eGPU? Why cart around the chips when you aren’t using them?

I wonder if it would make sense for general-use-class GPU to be bundled into displays so the t-bolt cable is just handling driver API instead of video stream.

Depending on your tolerance for bodges, if you get a dock which supports DisplayLink technology (The Dell D6000s does for example), and then install the DisplayLink manager, you can drive 3 external monitors from your Apple M-series laptop.

It's a bodge though, because it creates the extra monitors as 'virtual' monitors, screen records them, and sends the data to the dock. It doesn't play back DRM-protected video for instance. But if you don't need that, it works very well indeed!

Not sure how this is newsworthy, there are many quad display thunderbolt 4 docks on the market and some have been available for ages: https://dancharblog.wordpress.com/2024/01/01/usb4-tb4-docks/...

Perhaps this is an opportunity to launch craftkillernews where you only post things that are new to you.

Don’t those usually require DisplayLink drivers? This doesn’t, from what I can tell.

Nope, if you follow the link I posted you will see many of them are listed as "Quad display via MST" as in the multi-stream transport in the displayport (not displaylink) protocol. The dock I'm using supports Quad display via MST (1x hdmi, 2x displayport, 1x thunderbolt 4 pass-through) and it was launched back in September of 2021, 2.5 years ago.

That being said, some of them do require displaylink so definitely make sure you're being careful when shopping.

I have a Dell D6000 dock, and was pleasantly surprised to find that it powers and charges my M3 Max (14") without needing to use the Apple power adapter (the Apple adapter is 96W, and as best I can tell, the MBP CAN use more than the Dell's 65W, but only if I really push the GPU, which my uses don't)

Probably because the Dell Precision 5680 needs that whopping 165W

There's also the iVANKY’s FusionDock Max 1, which has quad displays attached via two separate usb-c ports. Expensive, but for those with serious pixel pushing needs this seems like perhaps the way to go. https://ivanky.com/products/ivanky-docking-station-fusiondoc...

There's a lot of very similar spec devices like this one out there - the iVANKY is probably the most expensive I've seen for the same functionality.

Here's the one I got, for less than 1/2 the price:

https://www.amazon.com/SIIG-Universal-USB-C-Docking-Station/...

This dock is unique in that it's two docks in one. There are two usb-c cables to the laptop, and two of the Intel thunderbolt client chips in the dock. Hence, higher res quad display than the rest.

I suppose if you can afford three 6k Apple screens, you can afford just about anything. Most people can't. I guess I'll continue "slumming it" with my four 4k displays.

I started using minipc for this reason. It is lighter, more powerful, cheaper, and has all the connectivity without some USB voodoo.

I thought M2/M3 max now support up to four displays? The chart here only shows 2 for apple silicon

Perhaps it uses MST to get the other two?

Assuming “it” means MacBook Pro but I thought Apple doesn’t support MST? Source: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/253432530?sortBy=best

Yes they don't. Hence the MBP would be limited to 2 monitors. "It" here is the dock.

You’re correct. The limits are:

• M3: 1 × fully hardware-accelerated external display

• M3 Pro: 2 × fully hardware-accelerated external displays

• M3 Max: 4 × fully hardware-accelerated external displays

Confusingly, M3 Air can support 2 external if laptop is closed

It is a little confusing, but it technically makes sense. When you disable the built in display, that display controller can be used for a second external display. It would be nice if you didn't have to actually close the lid to disable that display since some people would like to use the built in keyboard with 2 external displays.

Simulate lid closure with a magnet? https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/691627/Not+going+to+slee...

Avoiding lid closure will improve cooling and avoid throttling.

M3 Macbook PRO doesn't support 2 monitors even with laptop closed. This is why it's confusing. M3 Air does but M3 Macbook Pro (for 'professionals') doesn't.

They said they are going to add support for it on the Pro as well.

Even the M1 Max supports up to 4 external displays, but they only support up to two display outputs per ThunderBolt port. You'd need to connect the other displays via other means (directly, or via another dock) to the Mac.

Nice! I personally would prefer the host port to be on the back and to have more type-C ports.

That’s the problem. It doesn’t have type C ports. It’s got a buttload of A’s, but it’s 2024 not 1996. I’d rather buy USB-c to A adapters than be presented with a bank of vintage grunge band adapter ports.

What? How many things run USB-C nowadays? USB A is still everywhere and being sold on cutting edge devices today. You say that as if the port never evolved or something.

I have zero USB A devices and a LOT of USB C.

I have a handful of USB C devices and a metric fuckton of USB A

Do you have a fuckton of devices with replaceable cables that came with usb a terminals or are they all hard wired? If the former, you mean you have a fuckton of easily replaceable usb a cables.

Don’t forget micro/mini usb doesn’t imply a usb a terminal. I swapped out my usb a terminal cables even for micro/mini devices.

Some of them are. Maybe half.

But cables are expensive and I object to being forced to replace all of those.

A is a terminal plug. The switch from A to C you swap cables. They sell micro and mini cables with C terminals. A few devices come with A terminals hard wired still, occasional mice and keyboard. But most high end devices don’t have hard wired cables, they come with complementary cables you can easily swap out. I swapped to usb-c everywhere a few years ago without swapping my devices - just cables - and use zero adapters. I still have a few just in case but it’s increasingly unnecessary to listen to Nirvana while plugging my devices in.

USB-C is slowly taking over the peripheral world. My mouse has it, my keyboard has it, my webcam has it, my external SSD has it. Literally the only USB-A devices I still have are 5-10 years old and barely get used - such as thumb drives.

Even dirt-cheap Chinese knockoffs have USB-C these days. It has gotten to the point that not having USB-C is a red flag for peripheral manufacturers: it's a very minor engineering change and a single-digit cent price increase, so if a device claims to be cutting-edge and it has micro-USB something has gone wrong.

So yeah, my setup currently involves a USB-A hub and several A-C cables. It would be nice if I could just get a proper USB-C hub, but those sadly don't really exist.

wish i could find the source, but apparently it’s not a simple engineering change. i went down that rabbit hole years ago trying to find a doc with many C ports.

The issues tend to be around bandwidth and power delivery.

The caldigit thunderbolt 4 dock has 5 usb-c output ports, 2 are thunderbolt 4 and 3 are 3.2. Only the host t4 port is 98w, the rest are 20w, 15, or 7.5.

It does however only support one display.

If I needed 4 displays I would probably put this between my host and the four display device posted on here.

I would however prefer to see a single dock that can both accommodate a modern port set and multiple monitors.

https://www.caldigit.com/thunderbolt-station-4/

I found it: https://superuser.com/questions/1381139/why-cant-i-find-a-us...

Apparently this has changed with Thunderbolt 4.

And here, I’m still looking for a good, with fan, and not too expensive, TB4/USB4 single NVME enclosure.

Luckily they’ve started entering the market, but heat management seems to be questionable..

A couple of years ago I've purchased an expensive KVM swithch from them. Waste of money, it was glitchy as hell.

They make good racks, but their hardware was always crappy.

PXE over USB-C? How does that work? Is it just part of UEFI? Or is there some magic in the dock?

I don't know the implementation details of this specific StarTech dock, but other Thunderbolt docking stations (like the HP USB-C Dock G4) have a PCIe NIC which supports PXE booting.

It's the same implementation as an internal NIC connected over PCIe, the NIC firmware contains a PXE option ROM that the host runs during boot.

> Is it just part of UEFI?

Yes, sort of. It's the same way PC firmware has been supporting option ROMs of PCI(e) devices since the BIOS days.

Thunderbolt could've been the goldilocks solution for the "PC in the other room" crowd, there was even a brief moment were both nVidia and AMD GPUs had USB-C with DisplayPort MST on them. However, TB never gained VRR support as far as I know, and both nVidia and AMD dropped USB-C after one generation. Wasn't meant to be, I guess.

The problem is that they made things way too expensive for most people.

A simple usb hub and a separate hdmi cable does essentially the same for most people

Agreed. Extending things like the LAN connection is usually actually a downside in most "PC in another room" cases and USB/display are already very easy/cheap to extend great distances. Being it's a PC in another room you probably don't want to plug in actual PCIe devices locally (GPUs, high performance disk, whatever) since it defeats the point of having the PC in the other room. The only real upside of Thunderbolt is it had the potential to bring things down to a single cable, assuming that single cable had enough bandwidth for your needs (e.g. a single HDMI 2.1 cable can deliver more bandwidth than an entire Thunderbolt 4 cable).

I use it for this. The big PC is in the basement directly below where the desk sits. A 3-meter TB4 cable is hilariously expensive, though.

My main complaint with Thunderbolt remains that you need to be picky about the implementation. Macs all work fine, and fully integrated solutions like the Intel NUC also work perfectly. Getting an OEM or DIY workstation that supports TB4 is harder. The motherboards that provide Thunderbolt with an add-in card and cable headers never work right. They will fall over dead as soon as you push them even moderately hard, or if you do something unthinkable like unplug the cable.

I had an Alienware (Dell) that would take forever to configure itself when plugged into a dock that my coworkers with Macbooks used with no problems and half the devices wouldn’t work.

Later I got a Latitude with a matching Dell dock and those have worked together just great for years.

Huh isn’t DisplayPort tingelte through Thunderbolt so you get VRR via that?

Myself I use several kinds of “remote desktop” with my big PC regularly. I use Microsoft’s RDP to log in with a laptop and a iPad. I use Sunshine and amok light to play PC games on my NVIDIA Shield and Xbox One. And I use Immersed to use my computer with a Meta Quest 3. All with just Ethernet and WiFi.

I can get VRR via Thunderbolt with my gaming PC through a couple of different docks, but it’s flaky. Running a display through TB on that machine is kinda flaky even without VRR enabled, though…

I think it’s either Nvidia drivers or the card itself (3080 Ti FTW3) that is to blame, because the results are the same regardless of the OS I’m booted into (Windows or Linux) and Intel/AMD iGPU-equipped machines have no such problems. It wouldn’t surprise me if the Nvidia driver dev team does little to no testing of TB3/TB4 passthrough with their desktop card drivers.

Has anyone be able to find any other dock/display with video, 2.5gbps and PD?

Yes, I count at least 35 on: https://dancharblog.wordpress.com/2024/01/01/usb4-tb4-docks/

I've been using this for a few months:

https://www.amazon.com/SIIG-Universal-USB-C-Docking-Station/...

Works great! I connect to it with 1 USB-C cable, and it charges the laptop and drives up to four 4k monitors, and it also has 2.5gbps ethernet. Love the convenience of it all.

Does anyone know of any TB4 docks that support 150W+ power delivery?

Probably not what you want, but the Lenovo Workstation TB 4 dock has 230W output but uses a proprietary "Thunderbolt 4 split cable" that is only compatible with certain Lenovo laptop models.

No, the CalDigit TS4 will do 98W though. For many laptops, that just means it will reduce performance or draw from the battery when additional wattage is needed.

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