Cars have become expensive, but their baseline in safety requirements (and luxury) has increased a lot too. This is true for all cars, European or not. Cheap Asian brands have also become more expensive or went away as they cannot meet safety regulations.
Now 10k is the price of a second-hand car with lots of potential issues. It got to a point that there are companies that offer pericial services with a guy who goes to review the car with an ODB reader and everything. That wasn't happening here.
But it isn't only the cheap market. Premium brands are pushing a lot of BS and people is taking notice.
You can't squeeze people indefinitely without no repercussion. It's just impossible.
Last year, with subsidies I replaced it with an electric Dacia Spring for 16k€. It is much better than the old one (slightly larger, obviously more silent, less TCO since I charge it at home) and yes, it was subsidized by the state, but a similar ICE car could be bought new for the same price and it would also be better than the 2011 car. It sums up to +25% in 12 years for a better product, which is not a lot.
How much money are they losing? How can they afford to do that? How long can they keep that up?
China’s overall BEV exports rose 70 percent in 2023, reaching $34.1 billion.
The European Union (EU) is the largest recipient of Chinese BEV exports, accounting for nearly 40 percent of them. Other European countries (Albania, European Free Trade Association members, North Macedonia, Ukraine, and the United Kingdom) held a 15 percent share of Chinese shipments in the same year.
How long can they afford that: China has a big trade surplus, high youth unemployment, low domestic demand and no accountable leadership. So: very long.
In Europe this model of VW is imho over priced indeed, and price sensitive people should buy Korean/Japanese cars anyways.
Aside, what most people seem to miss is that the model mentioned in the article is not for sale in Europe and likely will not be (rumours because it does not meet safety criteria). Its bigger brother is, but that one is also a lot more expensive.
It very much meets safety criteria it indeed does not have the middle airbag but it’s not a requirement for the EU or the US.
The normal pricing is still less than half of the EU price and it’s not that VW just gave it to SIAC and called it a day.
It’s a JV which VW has a 50% share in so again are they loosing $35K per car or not?
SIAC is a massive automaker so they are a far better example of what kind of profit margins you can expect.
The same goes for Volvo which produces the EX30 in China and the current EX30’s available to buy in the EU and the rest of the world are made in China since Volvo won’t start production in Europe until late 2025.
The reality is that there aren’t many EVs currently in Europe that are both functional and affordable in fact there are non.
The ID.3 is probably the minimal family car you can have and I would argue that if you have kids the ID.4 or 5 are probably the minimum you would comfortably get by with.
Korean and Japanese EVs aren’t much better either as the Kia EV6 or the Hyundai Ioniq 5/6 are quite expensive as well.
True. I don't understand what we argue about.
- Cars in Europe have become more expensive, regardless if it is a Kia or a VW.
- The Chinese state distort the markets.
I guess we both love cheap transportation. The fact that in this competitive market all brands got more expensive tempers the suspicion that there are wild margins. But I also suspect that we do pay those higher prices regardless because we can.
In China there is a price war, precisely because the state funds a massive scale of EV production. Some Chinese EV manufacturers went bankrupt, but the state brought them back to live. Also, the Joint Venture of VW-Siac receives those subsidies, which helps VW to keep prices low in China. The example you gave was a temporary sale, initially scoped to just 7000 cars, but later increased to 17000. But yes, price difference between EU-China is still big nonetheless for this model.
China is a big market, and all players are working hard to get a foot in the door to establish their brand.
I fear that once a brand is established prices will rise. If you look at the phone market, the OnePlus was once a cheap flag ship killer. Now it is just as expensive.
When you see the gap between accounting in the West and "accounting" in China, "at a loss" has no meaning at all.
10 inch touch screens are not a luxury, but a death trap...
navigation is useless compared to say, waze
glass roofs only reduce your range by increasing a/c consumption
etc etc
most of those luxuries can -ck off for all i care
I view Chinese expansion in that sector as a Trojan horse.
Mind you that maybe the "company" (Chinese "companies" are not the same thing as we know in the West - these are more like government departments) has good intentions, but when the time comes, the party can order them to do whatever they need to be done.
The concern is a bit silly. You realize that while most of us are dying from starvation and radiation piosoning, the car working or not is like not even a concern.
Meanwhile, I rather drive whatever car I like, including Chinese ones. Especially cars witch the government think should not spy on me since they don't feel they control it.
I think you are underestimating dictators in their 70s with nothing to lose, power of propaganda and the fact that when there is war, there is opportunity to make fortunes.