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Comment by srvmshr | Hacker News Reader

TikTok bans in India and US are very different.

India did it as a kneejerk response to the Doklam border incident of 2020. When you don't intend a full scale war,the other recourse is to hurt China economically. I distinctly remember the wave that followed of boycotting Chinese goods as much as possible. TikTok is the outcome of that.

While it doesn't do much politically, the ban was to hurt Bytedance. When 80-100 million people go dark on a certain social media platform, those numbers don't look good. When Bytedance wants MAU stats to leverage against the next expansion loans or merger (possibly), this could hurt them. Or simply revenue from ads. With the US it is pure political influence on the sly which the government is afraid of. Indians are tough audience to sway that way from my experience.

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> Indians are tough audience to sway that way from my experience.

You underestimate the power of propoganda. The fact that you think the tiktok ban was in anyway related to the attack or even if was, it served as an commensurate retaliation for the attack just proves this.

Your experience could vary from mine, but the average boomer in India loves having political discussion on dinner tables, stemming from what they probably read in the papers or from channel switching over the day. TikTok hardly scratches their surface. While I understand Mr. Modi has been pretty influential on media houses, there are plenty of publishers like Indian Express or Dainik Jagran (in Hindi), or TV broadcasters like NDTV, The Wire etc., who don't mind calling Modi's spade a spade. TikTok isn't the main medium of influence in India. Facebook is, and the news & views is primarily still shared there

Let me show the political influencing landscape in brief: I have lived in both the aforementioned countries and I could unequivocally feel that the average Indian is more aware of political current affairs. Even if final choices could be biased on the Hinduist/nationalist leanings (which is unfortunately a relatively new dynamics), they are not blind to what is happening. Many would call Modi a crook but do not want the alternative posed by Congress and still vote for him. Religious minority appeasing and Reservation biases have been abused so badly in last 3 decades by the opposition (which was in power) that people are now blind to the agenda people like Mr. Modi exort. Their responses are mostly reactionary to lost opportunities of work/social mobility. BJP in India has been projecting itself as savior of masses by bringing in measures, which would have been undemocratic 2 decades ago (e.g Article 370 abrogation or CAA recently). This is in stark contrast to people in US growing up leaning Blue or Red all through their lives, because their family or county has always voted that. If you ask why they chose to, the answer is almost always political party loyalty (and not the agenda). Coming November we will see this again when despite of so many legal predicaments, Donald Trump might still competing hard for presidency based on traditional loyalties. TikTok is aimed at the fence-sitters in US with dramatic immigration, crime or socioeconomic shock videos. When you have a crowd that is not in know-how of current political affairs, TikTok is enough to create disruption. If you had to do that in India, probably Facebook is the weapon of choice.

Two observations about your comment. The ^average^ Indian, the masses whose vote sway elections in India, isn't the person discussing politics around dinner tables. They come from the houses where literal dinner tables don't exist. They are the ones who votes are coerced by gifts, muscle power and increasingly propoganda.

Secondly, of course the things that matter to the citizens in different countries would be different and of course the medium of propaganda in the countries are different (as an aside IMO, WhatsApp is the more influential medium in India). The topics like gun violence, abortion rights, race discrimination, health care, taxes ...etc are definitely things that get discussed about dinner tables and hold political sway in the US. The US style of 2 party system of presidential democracy and the role of electroral college are a bit problematic but the average US citizen isn't less political aware than the average Indian.

My point being, your assertion that Indians are somehow less immune to propoganda, is potentially arising out of some unconscious bias (one or more of confirmation or conformity or affinity..etc biases)

> The US style of 2 party system of presidential democracy and the role of electroral college are a bit problematic but the average US citizen isn't less political aware than the average Indian.

I don't think I will agree with you there again. But then we all have viewpoints and you can agree to disagree. I could similarly opine that you believe in a simpler, universal model of how political demagoguery works. Different populations respond to different degrees.

Looking at the voting bloc supporting DJT which is strongly pro-GOP/MAGA despite the dozens of legal challenges, the attempt to insurrection and felonies - that is unprecedented in any other place. My previous neighbors in NC still believe every one of the legal case is schadenfreude, and cannot understand why J6 actions were illegal and why "elections were not stolen". This is not a single person anecdote. A lot of educated people - working as nurse, technicians, delivery people just don't understand. I don't think this is just about loyalties. There is more at play. They are oblivious to many technicalities of governance and take the campaign email's/sms bulletpoints at face value. These are the target audience for TikTok based political influencing.

If the poor in India scrounging for two meals don't understand political big picture, I can excuse that. How can the recent right-wing tribalism among educated, well to do people in US explainable? I know social awareness cannot be quantified, but this perception is not just mine. The way conservative faction is getting away with its shenanigans despite so many challenges makes people everywhere else wonder why US voter factions for e.g. in Midwest and South are so so gullible & what could be done for awareness

I'm amused by your incredulity at how Trump could become president while simultaneously rationoalizing Modi being PM. The gullibility you so freely ascribed to the US Midwest and South... Is that not the same as those of the bhakts ? Like Trump, isn't Modi too not a self-aggradizIng, opportunistic felon ?

I mean for all its faults the US did not give Donald Trump a second term and that's all that I have to say about this matter.

I am by no means a Modi supporter. All my replies have been scathing and critical of his government.

That said I am amused too, at how you are completely normalizing Trump and Modi -- two autocrats of varying ambitions. But last I checked, only one is a convicted felon from sexual assualt to the theft of strategic security material. US did not give Trump a second term, but he is having enough second chances at anything -- including the presidency -- after these legal hurdles. That says heftily of the public support. Same situation is probably unheard in any country today -- including India. Remember Rajiv Gandhi? He'd have been jailed had he not been assassinated. That is not an opinion but facts. India is poorer but political checks and balances have traditionally worked better. The fourth estate has made people accountable even if they are under fire over time. We have our versions of Fox News but there is difference. Else IndiaTV wouldn't be a butt of jokes even among far right. Speaking of this as someone who has voted against BJP consistently after the Vajpayee era

You have a grudge against my opinion -- feel free to. I started this discussion by saying we have different viewpoints of how social media is influencing people. I lived in both places in the last decade. I see it first place. I am by no means pointing fingers at you. You can be at peace with your world model. "The political shitshow in US is incomparable to anywhere else & a lot of it is voter ignorances" is probably the best tldr I could offer. You can choose to disagree, like I do for your viewpoint.

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