Hacker News Rankings. Graphs of HN posts rank on timeline
hnrankings.info
hnrankings.info
I've recently started analyzing and categorizing all front-page posts with a simple LLM workflow.
The result is an interactive chart that displays the trending topics across different time frames: https://www.kadoa.com/hacksnack/trending
I use it mainly to check out new stories which are highlighted by prepending (NEW). Using this I noticed sometimes stories go down and disappear quickly, sometimes stories stay on the page for a noticably very long time. This websites proves that and lays that out clearly in a chart.
The shell scripts are still alive collecting data for past couple of months and there are interesting "interest" patterns. That's how I decide which stories I should not miss.
And it is entirely trivial:
ITEMS=$(clickhouse-local --query "SELECT arrayStringConcat(items, ',') FROM url('https://hacker-news.firebaseio.com/v0/updates.json')")
clickhouse-client --query "
INSERT INTO hackernews_changes_items SELECT * FROM url('https://hacker-news.firebaseio.com/v0/item/{$ITEMS}.json')There have been countless times where I've been the flag that tips a comment or a post over into the dead (or for posts, deranked) territory. I flag comments that are rude, abusive, or deliberately filled with misinformation. I flag posts that are likely to start flame wars, that are highly off topic, or that are clearly low-effort blogspam marketing with no valuable content.
If any of that sounds subjective to you, that's because it is. Most of the favoritism and bias you observe can be attributed to users like me who have an idea of what the HN culture should be and subjectively flag things that don't fit.
Ask yourself: what do you think Dan’s team does all day, every day, if not make decisions that influence the site? His comments are all that are publicly visible, so most people assume he just writes comments — an assumption as far from the truth as can be. And most people have no idea that there are even other members of the team, let alone know what they do.
This is by design. HN works best when people are focused on the content, not the site. It’s one of the most influential newspapers in the world, precisely because it focuses on the content. And you’d be kidding yourself if you feel they don’t decide which stories should stay on the front page, every day, a dozen times. Again, it’s their whole job.
Note that them seeing a story and allowing it to stay is also a choice, even though it’s implicit. So them doing nothing because they chose to let a story stay is not the same thing as them doing nothing because the community chose to put it there. Frankly, you wouldn’t want to visit HN if it was community run, because the community is terrible about choosing which stories should be on the front page. This has been proven true for over a decade, and the main reason Dan doesn’t come out and say so is because it’s one of those things that shouldn’t be said out loud. There’s no reason to call attention to how utterly awful the majority of users’ decisions are about what should be on the front page.
Remember, millions of people visit the site now. You wouldn’t want that many people to try to decide. The voting system is an indicator to the mods of potential community interest, but it’s ultimately up to the editors what stays and what goes.
People call this favoritism or censorship or other frankly silly terms, but there’s nothing sinister about it. The way onto the front page is simple: make something that someone bookish would find interesting or surprising. The "surprising" criteria is the trickiest part, because it covers what most people mean by "newsworthy" (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39778999). But HN has a particular kind of newsworthiness that filters out the majority of stories that the majority of users want to put on the front page.
It’s a tricky subject, and it’s long past time someone should write an essay to explain it all. I’m not quite sure how to do that without angering the community xor mods, but it would be interesting if it were possible. One reason this idea appeals to me is because I’d like to at least thank all of the dozens of people who help run HN behind the scenes; they rarely get any kind of recognition, because they don’t need it, let alone want it. But that makes them worth thanking all the more.
That said, I think it's reasonable for us to have visibility on their manual interventions, and this could be easily surfaced via the Hacker News API (https://github.com/HackerNews/API), if the Story JSON included the values of "contro," "bury," and "gag" fields, which are currently opaque to users of the API
See https://medium.com/hacking-and-gonzo/how-hacker-news-ranking... for more discussion on terminology
One other positive thing to mention about HN: the cost of running HN is non-zero, yet it remains ad-free. I'm grateful for this. So many websites have become unusable due to monetisation dark patterns.
meta.ycombinator.com or whatever.
Personally, I'd feel better about the future of the site if I thought there was a strong moderation team making numerous decisions behind the scenes. Instead, I think most stays/goes content decisions are made by one vastly overworked Dan and by a bunch of flagging users who frequently have ulterior motives.
The reason this is done is to remove from the front page hot-button topics (i.e. controversial political news), but often this also includes friendly, niche posts with vibrant conversation, which is very sad to see. These tend to have < 1 upvote/comment ratio than most "Generic tech-adjacent news" like "Apple releases new iPhone".
For example, the Ask HN I posted a few hours ago suffered the same fate: https://hnrankings.info/39788649/: from #13 on the frontpage, to 3rd page in minutes.
Last time I saw it happen on a lovely post about Forth and its various implementations over the decades — not really at risk of flame wars, but alas.
[1] https://www.righto.com/2013/11/how-hacker-news-ranking-reall...
Also, the article is more than a decade ago, and I'm wondering if there have been any considerable updates to the HN ranking algorithm since then?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1q6HS4Gcw8KVp5nTRC_H0...
It turned out to be very difficult as there are so many arbitrary factors, and the HN API doesn't expose those factors.
It's good to see the OP's graphs over time, showing the large jumps which clearly indicate manual intervention. That's a much more effective approach than my own analysis.
My motivation is to surface any patterns in those interventions. Annecdotally I notice that positive news about Elon Musk and his companies has been suppressed more than once.
* Elon Musk nobel prize nomination: https://twitter.com/chrisbeach/status/1760277351621878066
* xAI open-sourcing Grok: https://twitter.com/chrisbeach/status/1769755409391222868
Obviously, the moderators are responding to things like user flags, but in my opinion there should be more transparency around this, in order to prevent users brigading certain topics, using flags inappropriately, to manipulate the narrative.
I know you are correct. But I also smell Big Tobacco conspiracy, not with HN, but with Netflix. Where can I see number of flaggings?
It's not revealed in the UI anywhere AFAIC
( You'll need Showdead: ON in user options to see most of those comments, they're flagged, dead, and spamming a dodgy cryto scheme )
Or drop flagging as a feature completely. Looks easier :)
Treating HN this way is a misunderstanding of its goals and would make HN much worse. 'nerd messageboard with less yelly conversation' is about as good as one can hope for the actual aspirational goal of 'place for curious conversation'.
https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
Or maybe it's been manually flagged, so who knows.