National Park Service Sued over New No-Cash Policy at National Parks | Hacker News Reader

National Park Service Sued over New No-Cash Policy at National Parks

cowboystatedaily.com

37 pointsLinuxBender23 comments

Publicly-funded infrastructure must accept public money.

This increasing trend towards exclusively accepting electronic payment with private money:

- unjustly enriches the payments cartel

- excludes unbanked people, privacy-conscious people, and conscientious objectors from the fractional reserve banking scam--all of whom ought to have equal access to public infrastructure

- presents unnecessary resiliency and national security risks--if the payments system goes down, no payments can be made

On a related note, this trend is particularly acute in the EV charger space. Whereas every gas station accepts cash, practically no EV charging station accepts cash. This will have the same effects on EV ownership and mobility as I listed above. And in addition, undocumented people will face serious risks charging their EV at a public charging station once ICE catches on.

It's a huge and definitely under-reported shift in our societal status quo, especially given the contemporary hyper-focus on underprivileged groups, equity, and inclusion.

EVs share their unique identifier with the charger, so the privacy issue remains even if all the chargers get bill feeders.

ICE will still be able to track anyone they wish this way. Every time you plug in an EV it creates a data point (location, timestamp, vehicle ID) in an ongoing tracklog.

I would imagine that it's the same for a significant portion of gas stations that have security cameras that automatically read and store plate numbers.

Pretty sure police/parking/etc vehicles do this in real time. We've had low fidelity tracking of everyone for awhile

I'm surprised we don't have license plates on our roofs yet but I'm sure it's coming real soon

not really needed; cell phones do the tracking already

Cell phone identifiers (both IMEI and IMSI) are easily and cheaply rotated for privacy. Car VINs are not.

Also, VINs and number plates are linked to (someone’s) strong government ID. Mobile phone IMEIs and mobile plan IMSIs are not; both can be obtained anonymously for cash, and given away or traded without a trace.

I hope the suit wins. It's bad enough that Visa and Mastercard get to act as gatekeepers for so much of the economy already - they certainly should not be in control of entrance to the national parks.

It won't. They only have to accept cash for debts already incurred.

I wonder if a fine for not paying an entry fee counts as a debt...

I would be rather surprised if it didn't

The lawsuit:

https://www.nationalparkstraveler.org/sites/default/files/at...

It refers to 31 U.S. Code § 5103:

> United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues. Foreign gold or silver coins are not legal tender for debts.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/31/5103

They argue that the fees at the parks are public charges, not debts. I can't find anything in the US code that provides a definition for "public charge." It may be there and I just haven't found it. It seems likely that there are prior judicial cases that help shine a light on what is and is not a public charge. I hope these folks win.

Public charges seems to include things like fees for services and tolls, so it would seem that payment for entry to public parks is included here. Unfortunate though, as it may not make financial sense to open up areas if it requires someone there to accept payment (unless enough people are paying on an honor system). It may also result in parks just widening the scope of specific park passes and increasing the cost of a pass, meaning you can no longer visit one specific area of the park for a small fee. I wonder if you could just require that cash payments be made in advance at a park center if you don't choose to pay online.

That may well be what the law currently says, but if so, the law is wrong and needs to be changed.

Maybe the solution is a premium rate for cash?

There is a cost for taking cash. And our parks are underfunded. Maybe a no-change policy might work. But mandating such requirements without balancing funding just means more gates closed while rangers, instead of accepting visitors or keeping eye on errant hikers, must sit indoors to count cash and draw up the rules for doing so.

There is a cost for taking cards.

I think the argument to ban cash due to handling cost, is actually a mask for the real reason: preventing fraud by employees pocketing payments.

I mean, increased fraud risk and security costs ARE the cost of taking cash.

You can generally deposit cash into any bank with no fees - the issue is getting the right amount of cash there on time.

This also assumes they can afford to pay employees-that-do-not-pocket fees. A service like a National park is hyperlocal, these employees could have quite a bit of power actually

This lawsuit will be dismissed quickly. Legal tender does not mean what they think it does.

This is a growing trend at airports and elsewhere, too. Thankfully many cities like NYC have passed laws making it illegal to not accept cash; a federal law to do the same would be welcome.

I’m very glad to see people keeping the federal government accountable when it comes to these privacy-destroying, exclusionary policy decisions.

The problem with card-only payments is that every card swipe discloses your location to dozens of third parties and creates a timestamped tracklog.

The park doesn’t require your identity to enter; everyone who can pay is allowed to enter without identifying themselves.

Payment cards are strong identity, thereby deanonymizing park visitors.

America the Beautiful Passes (which gives access to national parks and federal recreational land) require a valid photo ID with each pass, so it's not like cash alone solves this issue.

If that's true it's so poorly enforced I had no idea they checked ID for the yearly national parks pass.

At JTNP we'd just get waved through the gates without even stopping by presenting one on approach. It's common for the locals to loan theirs to friends/family/guests...

They don't scan your ID. The park employee just checks the name you wrote on the pass against the name on your ID and hands it back to you.

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