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Comment by kawsper | Hacker News Reader

The building where I rent have doorlocks from Scantron ( https://scantron.dk/ ) they use RFID keys to open locks, and last year someone discovered a way of creating masterkeys from any key because of the weak encryption used by MiFare Classic.

It took a journalist and a lot of e-mails and calls for my landlord to understand the problem, I suspect that Scantron were also downplaying the issue towards them. They finally budged and upgraded all the locks to use a better encryption scheme and re-issue keys.

My building have 197 apartments, each of them have at least 2 keys, I have to trust all of the tenants (and their friends), in order for my apartment not to get burgled, and if I were burgled my insurance wouldn't cover because there's likely no proof of entry.

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I have rented my entire life, and “change all the locks” has always been the very first thing I do. I have a couple of different size high security cylinder locks, and whilst no cylinder lock is unpickable, I’m pretty happy with mine.

Interesting, because many renters (myself included) would not be permitted to change the locks.

This is quite different around the world. I've rented both at places where I could bring my own security locks and others where the landlord pretty much insisted in having a copy of all keys so they could enter in an emergency (e.g. a water leak) without breaking down the front door.

Maybe operating on the "easier to ask forgiveness than permission" principle?

I think landlords have to give you notice before entering your unit in most areas.

Swapping locks is maybe a ten minute job (probably less if you've done it a lot).

There's nothing to stop a tenant from swapping out the locks, then swapping the landlord's locks back in before a scheduled visit.

The bigger problem is for the unscheduled emergency entry when a fire/water pipe broke and they have to bust the door down. Then you get to pay for replacing anything that was destroyed in the process, and your appartment is completely open until it gets fixed.

...And you might also get to pay for the water/fire damage to other appartments because it took longer to get into the appartment due to something you did.

Yeah, you gotta determine what is more likely

1) the landlord didn't change the locks between tenants AND there's a great "key copying conspiracy."

2) There's an emergency requiring your landlord/maintenance to enter the premise when you aren't home.

I know which one I find more likely, but you do you.

OTOH Probably most landlords won't mind you changing the locks as long as you give them a copy of the key.

We just had #2 in our house happen two days ago so yes.

To be clear, I think #2 is much more likely.

I agree, I have never rented anywhere where I was permitted to change the locks.

I have changed the locks everywhere I have rented.

Interesting, when you did so did you know that you were assuming liability for the damage caused by the landlord being unable to access the property in an emergency?

I’m curious which type of emergency ?

In my country, a landlord have zero right to access a rented property. Even keeping a copy of the key is forbidden. Emergencies are for firemen and police and they basically don’t care about your lock if you don’t answer.

When you say you weren't permitted, are you referring to the absence of any language on the topic, or the presence of language saying that you shall not? Assuming the former, proceeding to do it doesn't seem noteworthy.

>“Oops forgot to tell you.. was I not allowed to do that?”

The only way they would ever find out is if they were trying to enter your place unannounced.

And even then "You had trouble getting in? Oh yeah, the lock is sometimes really sticky. If it's jammed, it helps if you lean on the door while trying to turn the key, then let off the pressure while you're twisting the key. What did you need to get in for? Shouldn't you have called first? I'll be back around {30-60 mins after your excepted arrival time} and can let you in then." (meanwhile swap the original barrel back in before they show up again)

Now that busted pipe to the hot water heater has been pumping water into the unit for an extra hour, and you’re on the hook for changing the lock in violation of your lease. But cool story about the cylinder.

Change the cylinder. Put the old one back, when your rental period ends. Takes 10 mins to replace the cylinder.

I’m in Europe, but the first thing I said to the renters of my Grandmother’s house was “here’s the keys, these are all the copies, but feel free to change the lock if it makes you feel more comfortable”.

People need to feel safe in their own homes.

One rental apartment where I'd changed the lock core, one day the nice handyman admired the fancy Mul-T-Lock style key while I was letting him in, and later remarked about it to landlord.

So I had to put the old cylinder back in, because of condo rules about the property management company needing keys.

(Though I later learned that the property management company might not have been able to find my unit's key if they ever wanted to. One day, the fire department was at the building, trying to get into a different unit, which had an alarm sounding, but they found that the key box was empty. I was there, so I called the management company, but they refused to send a runner with the key. Even after I handed my phone to the firefighter in charge, and he identified himself and asked them again. :)

Pretty much everywhere in Europe it is a legal right to be able to do so.

Not in Sweden.

What about giving a copy of the new key to the landlord? It's not as secure as keeping the key to yourself of course, but at least it eliminates the likelihood of prior tenants having a copy which is usually the primary threat.

Any chance you could share these e-mails? I also live in such an apartment complex and I was aware that the locks are jokes, but I didn't think it was possible to convince the building's managing company.

I had a similar situation at the apartment I used to rent. Unfortunately they didn't care to correct it, so I removed the battery from my lock and only used the physical key.

My fob copy still works there last I checked...

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