Study: Teens Think Your eBooks Are Lame, Prefer Actual Books | Hacker News Reader

Study: Teens Think Your eBooks Are Lame, Prefer Actual Books

litreactor.com

32 pointswyclif40 comments

Here are a couple reasons why teen me (I'm almost 30 now) may not have preferred eBooks over actual books:

1) I had only moved once in my life, and did not appreciate how much physical space books take up during a move. After moving ~4-5 times since going to college and graduate school, I have vowed to buy only eBooks now. Conveniently, I am also finally basically done buying academic textbooks (for which eBook versions can be scarce), having bought most of the ones I plan to use (often enough to not borrow a library copy) during my PhD and beyond.

2) In my experience, eBooks don't make it easy to annotate. Copies of my books from A Great Gatsby to Introduction to Biology are rife with pencilled in thoughts, arrows, underlines, etc. I've even enjoyed reading notes left by previous students in copies of books I've borrowed from the library (I am thinking of some comments I vehemently disagreed with in the Harvard library copy of Sartre's Search for Method, and to which I responded in turn). In that sense, library books might be more social than today's eBooks, as they can be both shared and annotated.

In regards to 2), something that I really enjoy when reading books on my Kindle is seeing the "popular highlighted passages". It basically shows you in your text where the most popular highlights are (so usually thousands of people have highlighted that passage for it to show up to you). I would love if they would expand that out further and allow popular comments/annotations as well (opt-in, of course)...although I'm sure there are a whole breadth of filtering and spam issues to deal with.

My ereader of choice is the Asus EeeNote. Very hard to find, and I'm not sure it's even made anymore. I ordered one from Taiwan (thanks, Chrome's built-in translation!). It has a Wacom digitizer, so it needs a pen, but that also means it doesn't register finger presses (so you can rest your hand on the screen while you write). There are a couple buttons at the bottom so you can flip through pages or through the menu without needing the pen in your hand. It's not the best ereader out there, but it's the only one I know of built for handwriting and reading at the same time. Black and white screen with no backlight, which is reportedly the reason Asus never sold it in the US. They didn't think the market would be there.

It can also be used just for note-taking (wifi sync with Evernote), it has Firefox built-in for web browsing, has a camera and can take audio notes as well. Plays MP3s. I use it a lot for writing notes in class while recording the audio of the professor. When I get home, my notes are already on my PC. Sitting at home, I can plug it into my PC and use it like a 8" Wacom digitizer in Photoshop. Totally worth the $250 shipped from Taiwan.

If those are the top 2 reasons, I suggest these as 3 and 4:

3) You lose the 'cover' of the book to signal to people what you're reading. Hanging out at Starbucks all day reading whatever it is you're reading is a good way to encourage conversations with other people who like the book/genre/author/style. This might not sound like too big a deal until you realize that teens use this to find sexual partners. (No, I'm not guessing here.)

4) They haven't yet had to lug their $365, hard cover, 800 page, 20 pound edition of "Calculus" from the dorm side of the campus to the science quad a mile and a half away.

re 3: there are covers to allow you to put the book cover on your kindle

A paper cover? (Or are you talking about something I'm not aware of?) Sure, but if I buy the "To Kill a Mockingird" cover and start reading another book, it doesn't change the cover.

The point I was trying to imply without saying it outright is that guys will take different books to places they'll be best received. There's an entirely different vibe in DC's "Adams Morgan" district than there is in the Shaw neighborhood, and the savvy pickup artist isn't likely to be reading the same book in both places.

As a book collector, I prefer print books, but I think we will have a long term need for both until e-book readers are as good as print at the things print still wins on (speed, clarity, layout, sense of permanence).

I buy e-books but only for things that are disposable, fiction, immediate, that have flat 'boring' designs, or that I otherwise don't need to scan through. E-book layouts are usually hideous (PDFs of print copies are an exception) and readers like the Kindle are useless for reference or anything I need to flick through. My Kindle can pull off a whole page every two seconds. I can flick through about 20 pages a second looking for something in print.

I'm guessing you have an old model of Kindle? My Nook takes less time on average to switch pages than I do to turn a physical page and scan to the beginning of the text.

Nope, the latest one. Against print, it's a wash for going sequentially from one page to the next.. but I also need to flick through many pages a second to scan or just get a feel for a book, and 1 page per second or two doesn't provide that.

I also frequently have multiple books open and jump between them scanning a lot as I do a lot of research. Again, not ideal for things like the Kindle, alas. But that's why I think we need both e-books and print.

I'd agree ebooks are lame. They're great for easy transport, and quite useful for college, but a lot of the fun of owning a book is lost.

I can't have a signed copy of my favorite book with an ebook. When I have a party or gathering at home people browse my shelves and spark conversation about certain books they've read, or thumb through others they haven't, this doesn't happen with my kindle sitting on my desk in the office. Buying a book and caring for it can mean you'll have it a lifetime, I don't know that this is the case with ebooks yet. They still feel like rentals. I have a few old books handed down from my parents, they have a charm and character all their own, something lost with ebooks. Some books I own are sentimental, my first copies of The Lord of the Rings, and a Wizard of Earthsea, I've had since I was very young. I can touch and smell and experience those books today.

Now, many teens might not care about the above, but the coolness factor may be tied to similar thought. For instance the vanity of walking around with the hottest teen novel or having it in your bedroom at home. Or, I remember in high school kids carrying copies of Fight Club and Clockwork Orange not just because they were reading them but also as part of whatever counter culture image they were going for. The author sort of touches on this, "But does size really matter that much? My copy of The Perks Of Being A Wallflower was so small I could fit it in my second-hand jacket when I was an angsty high schooler." For teens what they're passionate about and what they're into is part of their identity and trying to set themselves apart, and they like to show it off. Just look at the kids doodling their favorite band names on a binder, or listing every book, TV show, and movie they like on Facebook.

When I worked at Barnes & Noble a lot of teens enjoyed hardcovers that had some sort of unique flair. Embossing, elaborate art, books that opened in non-traditional ways. There's something to be said for the tangible aspects of the book. Appreciating its make.

I hate the space physical books take up, but the quality of ebook readers and the fact that I feel like I don't really own the book, make me very hesitant to by ebooks. I still have, but only a few and those ebooks were DRM-free so they are mine mine not just mine.

Every Kindle book I get, I immediately strip the DRM. In most Kindle formats, this is a pretty simple task. I never plan on sharing the book, but I don't like the idea that something I bought can be revoked. The repo man can only take what's not fully mine.

Haven't you actually purchased a license to the book contents and not an actual book?

Technically, you're probably right. I don't care. Companies can (and do) weasel their way into anything by saying it was part of the license agreement you signed. Fair use is fair use in my opinion. Buying the physical copy gives me the real thing, forever. Buying the digital copy for basically the same price shouldn't take my rights away based on a license.

Don't even get me started on Amazon's new Kindle format that's literally and strictly a simple PDF wrapped in encryption. I bought one of them for a class expecting to read it on my Touchpad, but apparently it only works on Mac/PC/iPad and nothing else. Complete bullshit. This is why people break DRM.

Under the first sale doctrine, he has a right to do whatever he wants to the bytes that he has purchased. The underlying content (i.e., the "book"), however, remains subject to stuff like copyright, etc.

But in all seriousness, the DMCA does authorize DRM-cracking if necessary to allow the customer to enjoy the full private use of media they have purchased

you can try this kindle drm removal to strip kindle drm easily. http://www.brothersoft.com/kindle-drm-removal-440793.html

Ebooks don't work well for signaling. How is everyone going to know how cool you are for reading whatever it is your reading unless they see it sticking out of your backpack?

I have an 8-month old son. I hope he grows up to enjoy physical books rather than eBooks. My reasons are many.

1. Most eBooks today are DRM-laden and try to lock you into a specific vendor. Since I'm sure most readers here are well aware of problems with books and DRM, I will leave it at that. (defectivebydesign.org) If you can find DRM-free eBooks, this is not an issue.

2. I stare at a computer/device screen all day and he will likely be doing the same by the time he has an opinion on eBooks. I enjoy the feeling and look of actual sunlight or a lamp reflected off of the page. That said, you could get a device with e-ink to solve that issue. The problem then is, if you're a free software user, your choices are limited / you will install another OS on your device, in which case your money is still going to support the proprietary software originally on the device.

3. Texture, smell, etc. People call me weird when they see me crack open a new book, complement (or express my disgust at) the quality of the pages and appreciate that new book smell. I appreciate the weight of the book. Books are beautiful things (minus the dead tree part --- that alone is enough reason for some to ditch physical books). You do not get that experience with eBooks. - What also of certain childrens' books like pop-up books, or the books with the different textures to feel the fuzzy lion or rough brick? Sure, your books isn't going to animate itself in the sense of a video, but there's an entirely different experience.

4. Size. This article mentions it. Any eBook I do read, I do so at my PC. Otherwise, I grow incredibly frustrated. Which leads into my next point:

5. Spacial memory. Even if I cannot remember the details of a particular paragraph, I can remember roughly where that paragraph was. I can estimate the location of the page, open up to it and flip around a little until I find it. The argument against that would be the fact that you can search on an eBook --- and yes, that is immensely helpful, to the point where I would I have eBook copies of certain physical books I use for reference. But eBooks destroy that spacial memory --- everything is just on a flat screen. Therefore, it feels different when I read an eBook. - This same concept applies to, for example, code. When I develop in vim, I do so across multiple monitors with many splits. I can remember where my code is specially in that sense, per file. However, it does not help me for the contents of the file, as that still requires scrolling within the windows. Therefore, if I am doing a code review, for example, I will print out the code. I can easily reference certain portions and annotate it. I can lay out all the code and look at it as a whole.

6. Annotations. I have a writing/drawing tablet. I can annotate documents on my PC and I find it especially useful for doing so. I annotate my books heavily. Heavily. No page goes untouched. If I were ever to lose my book (theft, fire, carelessness, etc), I will have lost countless hours of work and research. ...so what's the problem? Is the annotation format both free and standard? Can I view it on any device without saving it as a PDF/image/etc? Not usually.

eBooks are good for certain things. It's great to have both an eBook and a physical copy, so long as it is DRM-free. I just cannot make the switch, partially due to quirky reasons. Perhaps, by the time my son is old enough to have an opinion on the manner, devices will evolve to a point that eliminates many of the above points. Until then, the guy who spends the majority of his day at a PC would rather have a physical book to enjoy.

FYI, all modern Nooks run Android. The original model ran a proprietary system, but the modern Nooks are all Android and Barnes & Noble even has an unofficial policy of helping people root the tablets if they want to.

I'm aware (my girlfriend owns a color one), but they still run their own proprietary software atop of the OS, in addition to providing DRM-infected eBooks (but you have the option to put your own eBooks on the device, which can be DRM-free). Their TOS also states that they can remotely access your device at any time (stating that the act of doing so to apply upgrades may possibly harm your device), among other details I do not want to begin ranting on here.

I own a Sony PRS-T1 and have it rooted as well so that it runs Android. The Sony also allows me to handwrite notes into the document.

Study: Adults still have no idea what teenagers want.

Because teens largely don't know what they want and reflexively reach for a position distinguishable from the one put forth by adults.

If their parents were pushing dead-tree books on them, you don't think they'd prefer it that way, do you?

Extending this - will our kids reflexively hate Facebook because their parents are on it (and were there first)? I wouldn't be surprised.

It's worth noting that at a certain point things achieve such cultural penetration that very few teens rebel against them in that way. [1]

At some point they're simply treated as ubiquitous human endeavors.

[1] 7-11, Coke, iPods, Nike, McDonalds, Levis

When teens resist adults on these points, it usually manifests in minor styling differences or personalization. (cross brand promotion, garish colors, etc)

Because they don't own enough paper books to be afraid of bookshelf collapse yet?

To me, this just says ebooks have been done poorly so far (which they have been). Once eBooks improve, you'll see this change.

Teens professing a hatred of what's widely accepted? SHOCKING!

My whole family have always been avid readers. Even the younger kids (13-18 years) still read and exchange books on a regular basis at our family gatherings. A while back I asked why none of them had started reading on their i-pads or gotten an e-reader. Their answers were pretty interesting.

They all mentioned not being able to fully utilize their imagination. On a paperback novel, you have the cover artwork, you have the author's bio, and the back cover art. They said most e-readers don't have these and it takes away from the experience. They also said the feel of a book in their hands is an experience they know and love. Even the simplicity of turning pages is lost. Holding a little tablet, they never knew if they getting close to the end of the story or not. With a paperback, it was easy to visually see and know how close you were to the end of the book - and it felt like more of an accomplishment.

I found it pretty enlightening. A lot of simple things people take for granted which can't easily be replaced by a better technology.

Alternate theory: Having an eBook reader might show a commitment to be a reader (i.e., you do it for fun, not just because it's homework), and teens don't want to be known as "readers" (because it's lame at that age).

The thing is these very teens will be seen walking around with the Hunger Games or whatever the recent teen "must read" is. They brag about having read the last Harry Potter in 4 hours. It has become a cool thing to actually be literate in the latest teen book craze.

Yes, but that's a very specific and fairly small set of books. Reading the Harry Potter and Hunger Games books is not the same thing as generally identifying as a reader. Carrying a Hunger Games book identifies you as a Hunger Games fan — carrying a Kindle identifies you as somebody who likes books other than The Hunger Games.

Teens also have better eyesight. I used to read a lot of paper books when I was a kid. By the time I got to college, the only thing I read were textbooks, because I hated squinting at tiny print. Publishers have an incentive to be stingy with print size, since they can save money on paper. I’ve started reading more books again on my computer, because I can scale the font size to 24 and there’s a backlight.

I suspect that teens recognize that ebooks are inherently cheap compared to print books.

It's not just that they're poor socially from a digital perspective, they're poor socially form a physical perspective as well...sharing or giving an ebook lacks the intimacy of sharing and giving a physical object.

eBooks are passionless, and teens care deeply about passion.

BTW, "lame" is stale.

Don't forget that books also have a super low cost to entry, are very easy to loan, and aren't a huge loss if you replace them.

My 6 and 8 year old kids love ebooks. They have a rooted Nook Simple Touch and access to a Color Nook and a Motorola Droid. They like the Color Nook best (big screen, can play games) but are perfectly happy to read from any of the devices.

I was only a teen a few years ago, and they probably don't like eBooks not for any rational reason - it's probably something to do with being cool and different.

Give them a few years to get into college and start buying actual textbooks.

If the primary reason someone switches to ebooks is so they can carry more textbooks, I really doubt that will do much to shake any ebooks-are-lame attitude they might have.

They didn't get a choice when we gave them books, why should we give them a choice when it comes to eBooks?

Suck it teens, you get what you get. Be happy that we lurnz you to sp3l.

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