Parrots love playing tablet games. That's helping researchers understand them
news.northeastern.edu
news.northeastern.edu
"in order to access this functionality, you must first chew through the charging cable"
And that's to say nothing of the parrot ad click farms.
The earnestest researcher can't go survey every parrot in every home all around the world, but parrot owners can casually expose what their own parrots do.
Reminds me of the Twitter thread where a mite researcher discovers a new species in a photo posted by an amateur photographer.
That parrot looks almost exactly like a 4 year old using youtube.
It's sort of astonishing to think about. From both the fact that the parrot can figure it out, and that the function and use of youtube is so intuitive to users that a parrot can learn it.
I've heard people describing parrots like hyperactive 4-5 year olds so many times... it's nice to see that in practice lol. It must be a great pet, I could never deal with the constant pooping though. Imagine having to deal with them making a mess every 30 minutes for 70 years. How many poops even is that? Yikes.
If my math is right, over 70 years a parrot would give 1,227,240 shits about you.
Oh that's adorable. I have a parrot and poops aren't even the biggest mess he makes.
They love to fling food. And shredding. And throwing everything you hold dear. And even a tiny 120g parrot like mine is strong enough to open cupboards and drawers.
And they’re smart enough to remember people for many years and learn how to behave differently around different people based on past interactions.
Oh and you can throw them like a boomerang.
I had an Amazon parrot that needed less attention than an African Gray or a Cockatoo.
I'd still not recommend as a pet given that their lifespans are so long. It's a decades long commitment and they may even outlast you, in which case you need to figure out what's going to happen to them.
So much that is fascinating about non-human animals. I can't resist but think that there's a deep similarity between us, and them. One that we even don't suspect. Reminds me of Tom Regan's words:
"Animals have a past, a story, a biography. They have histories. Mink and bears, elephants and dolphins, pigs and chickens, cats and dogs: each is a unique somebody, not a disposable something."
And for the record, I personally suggest a vegan lifestyle, because I believe exploiting animals is morally wrong.
So I don't agree at all that by not using violence all the time we're going against our nature.
But in the case of food, I believe we are, because evidently we require certain substances to survive, and one of the best ways to get those is to eat meat. In most regions where humans live today, without meat or foods imported from faraway regions, we couldn't survive.
If it was the only way this would be more compelling. However it is just the easiest way.
Like arguably the best way to get money is to mug someone, but i don't think that makes it ethical when there are alternatives.
Seems like an oversimplification to me, and we don't know that they live their whole live in fear. We observe playful and happy behavior in plenty of wild animals, not only in apex predators.
> I am not convinced that when animals are grown by humans in appropriate conditions [...]
They lack any kind of self determination, take a milk farm for example. The cows are inseminated/raped by humans until they die, children are taken away from their mothers shorty after birth, the girls are destined for a live of constant pregnancy, the boys for 9 month of power food and then the knife. So many animals that we use including many pets, would run away, if we opened the prison doors. I fail to see this form of enslavement as something positive.
> Do you believe all predators are "morally wrong", or only humans??
No, I don't believe that. But I believe you are making a false equivalence here, I have no moral qualms with an indigenous group of people hunting for a living. I do have a problem with industrial scale exploitation, when we have reasonable plant based alternatives, heck personally I don't even mind industrial scale insect farming. Do you think that two angry humans killing each other over a conflict is the same thing as industrial scale genocide with labor camps?
I don’t fool myself. Any industrial food industry is built on a foundation of manufactured pain.
> We observe playful and happy behavior in plenty of wild animals, not only in apex predators.
I don't know... you may see that in an environment heavily modified by humans, like National Parks or zoos... but in really wild environments, there would be a healthy population of predators that "control" the population of those animals they hunt, so it seems it's almost inevitable that if you're prey, in a real wild environment, you would need to be on your toes absolutely all the time. This is what I've observed from the little interactions I had with really wild environments.
> Do you think that two angry humans killing each other over a conflict is the same thing as industrial scale genocide with labor camps?
That's a weird questions to ask, I don't see any relation whatsoever with what is being discussed.
> That's a weird questions to ask, I don't see any relation whatsoever with what is being discussed.
I painted a false equivalence in a related field with the same tools you did. In both cases people are killed, but the details matter. And for our discussion, killing animals != killing animals.
Look at the way cattle and sheep are farmed over moorlands in the UK, the animals are literally left alone on land hundreds of hectares large, they live in as "natural" environment as physically possible. We can argue that a human left in those conditions would be unhappy with the still limited space, but I don't think we can argue in good faith that any animal is "unhappy" in those circumstances.
If we substitute your children into their lifestyle, would you be ok with that? Run around these free fields, but there are fences, and you will have to subject yourself to mandatory harvest long before the end of your natural lifespan. Ah and sometimes a dude will come around and shove a stick with a magnet down your throat to collect metal junk you've eaten because people carelessly throw away trash. I never talked about happiness, I talked about self determination. Yes it's not all equally bad, but saying humane farming is like saying humane torture. A dichotomy and a lie. I'm not saying farming equals torture, I'm saying self determination and farming are fundamentally incompatible.
Animals are not humans though, so this comparison is completely moot(for me anyway).
>>Humans are still imposing their will on these animals.
That's like saying that I'm imposing my will on my dog by making him live with me. Like....I guess you are correct? That doesn't automatically make it bad - if it does for you, then I guess that's where we disagree.
>> I talked about self determination
I don't believe animals have self determination in the first place, not it in the same way humans do. A cow is neither capable of deciding its own fate, nor is any attempt to give it such agency even remotely reasonable. Again, I expect we will disagree here.
>> but saying humane farming is like saying humane torture
Uhmmm, again, no not really, because keeping an animal on an open moor like in my example wouldn't be called torture by literally anyone other than the most extreme believer in animal rights. After all that's where these animals normally live, the fact that there is a fence there(sometimes there isn't even one, or if there is the animal might literally never come across it), is literally the only difference between "wild" and "farmed" animal here.
But for the sake of the discussion - do you then consider hunting wild animals ethical or humane? Like a bunch of deer living in a forest, and they just get shot one day - is that more or less ethical than killing a sheep that spent its entire life out in the open? What makes that difference?
This is also true of vegetable farming.
If you are arguing that dividing humans from animals is arbitrary, the same is true of dividing the other kingdoms of life from Animalia.
The evidence is that most of our existence we hunted and gathered nomadically.
[1] https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/developmen...
It's not just our supermarket. Our entire society is based on the genocide of animal species and destruction and violence. It is the most sick society and disgusting thing I have ever seen, on the level of the atrocities of all of human history.
There is a small park right outside my house and I constantly see crows just clowning around on other birds. I’ve seen them harass eagles just for fun and casually take food from pigeons.
So "our predecessors" isn't specific enough. One might mean our pre-ape ancestors, like you do, or the subgroup of apes that is hominids.
I mean a new "idea" is far from being able debunk anything, right?
Also, the debunking likely refers to the really old progressivist idea that any species that went extinct must have done so because it was inherently "inferior", instead of less well adapted to whatever changes the environment threw at them.
Either way, from what I understand the most recent well-supported theories of what caused neanderthal extinction is that their basal metabolic rate was so much higher compared to ours (due to adaptations to the ice age), that this simple caloric difference gave their body plan a long-term disadvantage over ours after the ice age ended[0].
And when I say "body plan" I refer to the part where apparently early humans and Neanderthals interbred so often that about 20% of Neanderthal DNA is still present in the modern human gene pool, and most humans have about 1 to 4% neanderthal DNA[1]. Similarly DNA from homo sapiens has also been found in neanderthal remains[2].
So were kind of reaching this point where Neanderthals and Denovisans seem to not quite match the definition that most people use when they say "different species". Our ancestors interbred a lot, and the genes that were advantageous stuck around. At that point using the word "extinction" without caveats becomes a bit misleading I think.
[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6d3uHSFxkM
In this world, some of us humans try to fail Turing tests on purpose to get access to ad-free tech designed for pets. Yes, Google, I am a parrot, why?
My heart! There's a separate article dedicated to it: https://news.northeastern.edu/2023/04/21/parrots-talking-vid...
Parrots are too smart and too social to be kept in captivity
Don't get me wrong, humans are still the smartest animal on earth obviously, but it does seem like we greatly underestimated the intelligence of a lot of others. Birds like parrots and crows in particular continue to impress me when I see them solving increasingly elaborate puzzles, and figuring out how to open windows and the like.
Also I just think parrots are cute.
I think this is correct but not obvious. It could be we (I am assuming you are also human :) are just the most ambitious.
[1] Some people point out that we've never learned orca language but they've learned ours. This is true, but it's also true that orca scientists have never kidnapped human children and intentionally tried to teach them orca language. So it's more of a poetic comparison than a scientific one.
Gaia making a mental note: "Hmm. The jury is definitely out on whether it's a good idea to combine large fore-brains with opposable thumbs.."
[1] Of course, maybe in Andromeda some sea-hackers are reading Hacker Sea-News and arguing land-based animals could never develop civilization because something-something.
I think mermaids could do fish kebabs over a gas vent (though they'd lose a lot of food), but they couldn't use it as a kiln.
(1658) > Loqui vero eos easque posse, Iavani aiunt, sed non velle, ne ad labores cogerentur : ridicule me hercules.
"Indeed, the Javanese say that [the Orang-utans] are able to speak to them, but they do not want to, lest they should be forced to labor (pull the other one it's got bells on)"
It seems obvious to me, though I might be redefining "smartness" in a very human-centric way.
It seems pretty clear to me that humans are the smartest in terms of analytical ability; you hear things in the media all the time like "crows are smarter than 7 year old humans", but I think that really depends on how you measure it. I am pretty sure I could teach a seven year old child that four quarters, ten dimes, twenty nickels, one hundred pennies, five dimes and ten nickels are all equal to the same amount. I don't even think that a seven year old human child would struggle with that terribly; I'm pretty sure I knew that five one-dollar bills was the same thing as a five dollar bill at that point. I don't think any other animal is capable of making those equivalencies though; I am pretty sure that a crow could not be taught this, no matter how hard you tried.
Now, it's entirely possible that assigning weight to this is demonstrating bias towards human concepts; this stuff might be obvious to humans because humans invented it, and thus comparing human and non-human ability in terms of human creations might be an entirely malformed premise. I know nothing about neurology or philosophy (or really anything outside cartoon trivia), so this is just kind of "gut feelings" on my end, which I will admit that that's not very firm ground to stand on.
Yes, children aren't born knowing languages so you teach the child the language and then you can see it understands it. You don't need to share a language to teach language. We haven't been able to teach any animal language at even 4 year level, so animals at least doesn't have the same level of language intelligence as humans do.
We know we are able to teach children language because we have shared modes of communication through which we can observe their learning; speaking, writing, hand gestures.
> You do not need to share a language to teach a language
True, but I would argue that you need to share a mutually intelligible mode of communication.
How would you teach (and know that they have understood it correctly) the concept of monetary denominations to a 7-year old child if you were limited to communicating on the level you can with a crow? I have no idea, and would probably give up. But this does not necessarily tell us anything about the intelligence or capacity for learning language in the child, it tells us only of the gap in communication that we cannot bridge.
> so animals at least doesn’t have the same level of language intelligence as humans do.
This does not necessarily follow. What follows is that humans are not able to teach animals human language on the same level as they are able to teach humans.
This may be modern schooling at work. I've heard that one motivating factor for the ancient egyptian's strange-to-us mathematical style ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_fraction ) is that when they divvied stuff up, they needed to do it in a way that was more obviously fair than we do.
Example: we have four workers on our gang and need to pay them with 3L of beer and 3 loaves of bread at the end of the day. The beer is easy; just pour equal levels in three similar containers. For us, the loaves are easy too: give 3 workers 1 * 3/4 loaf and the last one 3 * 1/4 loaf. For the ancient egyptians (who might complain the last one either got smaller portions or more things) it'd be important to give everyone obviously the same portion: 1 * (1/2 + 1/4) loaf.
A closer analogy might be trying to teach a 7 year old who speaks a different language. Or even deeper, a 7 year old child who only knows sign language and you do not.
The communication gap makes it very hard to figure out how much is a “intelligence” difference versus just being unable to even communicate the contents of the test.
Let me try and explain; I don't speak Spanish, but if I had teach a 7 year old who only knew Spanish, presumably I, as a human, could learn Spanish and then teach the 7 year old whatever I needed to.
I'm not sure there's an equivalent "crow" language that is even possible for anyone to learn, at least in the same way that humans have language. I know that animals "communicate" in some senses with mating calls and the like, but I don't think they have anything even approaching "grammar" and "syntax".
But I suppose if you're going on a deeper level, if you had some way of directly communicating with a crow (like beaming information directly into their brain already translated in a form that they could understand), I still don't know that you could teach them that money equivalence analogy I used.
Again, I'm speaking out of my ass here, I don't know anything about this stuff, just spitballing.
Given that there is no known means to effectively communicate with animals, we are restricted to tests that do not demand shared communication to identify intelligence. These tests must be benchmarked on mutually unintelligible humans.
For instance, a grade school Chinese exam might be a good way of gauging the intelligence of Chinese children, but is a terrible way of gauging the intelligence of French children. Such a test is lousy in certain domains. We must be cognizant of such testing methodology limits in the design of animal intelligence tests.
tl;dr A test that would fail animals and speakers of a different language are not good tests. An animal intelligence test needs to at least pass all humans of comparable intelligence regardless of language to reach the bare minimum of acceptability.
I think that's what we mean by intelligence. Valuable behavior.
Avian rage-quitting? So it's not just humans... I feel better now.
They're hilariously persistent in their anger.
... in my experience, if waterfowl come at you hissing, just look bigger and hiss back - as long as it's smaller than a swan.
But there was one day when they met their match. Another pair of geese appeared like magic. Just wandering around like they owned the place. The original pair were not happy. They hissed and waved their wings in anger. The new pair did the same. Uncowed. The original pair decided to charge the interlopers and chase them off. Lowered their necks. Went full speed at them. Then slammed into the glass doors because they were attacking their own reflections.
They spent the rest of the day, greatly humbled, swimming around the office park pond. Gave everyone a break for a couple of days before resuming the usual CEO & secretary hunt.
And we do mourn the loss of the research assistants.
Also his favorite phrases to yell out when company comes over are "The Earth is Flat!", "Vaccines Suck!", and "I'm not flying, I'm traveling."
He just flirts with the phone and I haven't seen him try to use it. But if we put a picture of another budgie on the screen he will give it a gentle kiss. He's not as smart as some of these big birds, but there's a lot more depth than I would have ever expected. He has different phrases he uses for different people, and even a set that he exclusively says to videos of himself on an iPhone.
Thought the sounds would engage him but he's very entertained by the center black button expanding menu on that app. Now I need to make a bird game...
He likes both our phones and our tablets, mostly to chew on but he sometimes engages in weird social ways. He'll let me scratch his head while it is resting on the phone but otherwise not, only my wife gets to scratch his head usually. It isn't a usual one-person-bird bonding thing, I can otherwise interact with him normally, train him, and hang out with him but the head scratching is her time unless there's a phone there.
He also likes my stylus/Pencil but mostly because there's a nice soft tip to destroy on the end.
Concerns about "potential damage to the tablet" are not uniquely avian.
The videos seem to show COTS tablets in cases that have been designed for children.
.
COTS: Commercial, Off-The-Shelf; a product that is commonly available for sale, and is fit for use with little or no modification.
On that topic, I recently saw a video of flocks of parrots that learned to manually spin a water pump windmill by flying up and sitting on the top of it on windless days.
These are cool.
[0] https://cybershow.uk/blog/posts/parrot-versus-phone/index.ph...
It's not as if they need multi-touch or other capabilities.