Hacker News Reader

Comment by thuuuomas | Hacker News Reader

Why was this headline changed in such an editorializing way? “Mixed society” is a loaded term not present in the original headline.

View on HN

Yup this makes no sense. Note that the original is also wrong: "How does Paris stays Paris...".

To me Paris is not Paris at all anymore.

The government is in damage control before the olympic games and shall try to hide that Paris is not Paris anymore but Paris honestly became a sad thing to see.

There are many tourists having an actual shock and it can be really bad: if I'm not mistaken japanese even have a hotline they can call if they're in shock when they discover the shithole that Paris as become as opposed to the rosy picture of Paris that is painted abroad.

But, I mean... Paris was _never_ that fantasy version of Paris, or anything like it? Though arguably it's a lot more like it today than it was, say, a century ago, or two centuries.

I'm going to guess Paris had more actual Frenchmen in it one or two centuries ago.

That would be a definitional matter. About 15% of Paris’s population are non-nationals. This isn’t unusual for a European capital; Dublin is 17% and Berlin is 22%, say. This would have been lower two centuries ago, though what it meant to be a national was arguably a bit different. However, what’s a ‘Frenchman’? Two centuries ago, most of France did not speak French fluently (and perhaps did not speak it at all). Even in World War I, 20% of the Metropolitan French army didn’t speak French functionally. Fluent French would certainly have been more common in Paris than elsewhere, but really you’re looking at a very weak national identity versus today.

> About 15% of Paris’s population are non-nationals.

How would you possibly know this as France doesn't record ethnic data for births?

Non-nationals are, approximately, non-citizens. Outside of edge-cases, anyone born in a country may be presumed to be a national of that country.

Paris syndrome is fairly over-hyped. From wiki:

"Although the BBC reported in 2006 that the Japanese embassy in Paris had a "24-hour hotline for those suffering from severe culture shock",[4] the Japanese embassy states[clarification needed] no such hotline exists[clarification needed].[9][10] Also in 2006, Miyuki Kusama, of the Japanese embassy in Paris, told The Guardian "There are around 20 cases a year of the syndrome and it has been happening for several years", and that the embassy had repatriated at least four Japanese citizens that year.[11]"

Out of a million people who are Japanese that visit Paris every year, a dozen of them having shock at the reality of the city isn't that noteworthy honestly, and I imagine there are more Americans that do this than Japanese people.

A dozen of them having shock at the reality of the city and call the Japanese embassy. Don't know about you but it would take me way more than culture shock to call my embassy when I'm traveling.

> Out of a million people who are Japanese that visit Paris every year

That's a staggering number of people! Almost 1% of all Japanese people visit Paris every year?

Looks about right, if you look at pre-covid numbers. Post covid Germany still had 60k visitors per month from Japan, and covid slashed tourism by around 80%.

https://www.tourism.jp/en/tourism-database/stats/outbound/

I went to Paris on vacation last year, and there was garbage piled head high on the sidewalks and multiple riots in the city protesting the pension changes while we were there.

We had a wonderful time.

The riots are scheduled ahead of time, so we knew where and when to avoid. The garbage was not pleasant. But did not stop us from enjoying awesome cultural and culinary and sight seeing experiences.

From what I can tell, this Paris has always been Paris. It's always been rich versus poor, often far more violently than what I describe.

I've been there every now and then over twenty years. None of this Paris isn't Paris any more. Pretty much normal changing of a city.

It looks like the New York Times changed it. The title in the <title> tag is the same as this post, in the article header they changed it.

Could be due to HN title's limit? For example, I tried to submit a story with this title - Google blocks man’s email account over nude childhood photo; Gujarat HC issues notice to firm - but it exceeds HN's title word limit. So I had to edit it to - Google blocks email account over nude toddler photo; Court issues notice to firm ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39756841 ) to fit it within the word limit. Now, I get the use of "toddler" instead of "childhood" in the title does cause a slight loss of context, but it's the closest match I could think of to retain most of the headline as HN guidelines demand. So the "editorialising" could just be as simple as us trying to be "editors" on HN to meet its guidelines, rather than politics. (Also, I didn't find the term offensive and feel the submitted title is much better than the actual title on the article).

What do you find 'loaded' about the phrase 'mixed society'? It is more descriptive than the meaningless phrase in the original headline: "How Does Paris Stay Paris?".

Possibly because it presumes Paris is 'mixed', but actually the city of Paris is notably better off than the surrounding suburbs, especially the ones on the north/east. This has some good maps: https://medium.com/perspective-critique/the-geography-of-ine...

Can't help but be reminded of this classic:

THE VILLAS AT KENNYS HOUSE

The most sought after address in all of South park for only the very privileged few. You can take in the views from the deck spa and enjoy the mixed Sodosopa culture. Also, featuring a private fitness center, clubhouse and so much more. Welcome home.

https://southpark.cc.com/w/index.php/The_Villas_at_Kennys_Ho...

I think it's a direct translation of the French phrase "mixité sociale" mentioned in the article, I bet the connotations are slightly different in English than in French.

The title of this post is taken from the linked page's title element. It's likely that the NYT changed the headline on the page after publication but did not update the title element to match. Happens all the time

Reply on news.ycombinator.com