FlipperZero: Our Response to the Canadian Government | Hacker News Reader

FlipperZero: Our Response to the Canadian Government

blog.flipper.net

106 pointsnickthegreek23 comments

I somehow didn't expect such a well written article from FlipperZero. I'm used to companies that answer to politicians, legal changes/battles more "emotionally loaded", rather than objective with facts, examples, cool graphics and technical details!

I normally can't concentrate enough to read such long articles posted here on HN, but I did read this one without noticing how long it is. And I can see how non technical people would understand this article too, while technically versed people probably won't get bored reading this, very well balanced!

This article also cleared some things up for me, as sillly me somehow really thought that people used the Flipper Zeroes to steal cars.

Kudos to the authors

It’s the equivalent of banning balaclavas to prevent burglaries. Sadly I think it’ll still prove a popular move as most people will lack the technical aptitude to understand that the FlipperZero is not used for car thefts.

agreed, this is so stupid. wait till they see what a ti devboard can do lol

Well, except we have video evidence of thieves wearing balaclavas during burglaries, not so much of them using FlipperZero's.

I'd like to propose an alternative: it’s the equivalent of banning bananas to prevent burglaries.

The only path to success here is to convince them that FlipperZero promotes racial diversity.

I think they're on track at a metaphorical level to follow the same consideration of racial diversity shown to their indigenous people, i.e. mass burying in unmarked graves instead of attempting to address the disparity. I guess it's better that it's not literal this time.

The current Canadian government has the weakest ministers. I think it is designed this way and allows the prime minster to dominate discussions and push his agenda. It also keeps potential successors weak/clueless. But this is the result of another clueless minister. The removal of facebook news is another.

One could have not imagined better and free publicity for a company than what this not so smart Canadian government is doing.

"Scapegoat" comes to mind.

“Scapedolphin”? :)

Why are society’s little cupcake nannies so flustered about this innocent gadget?

Because they think it's easier to ban this device than to require auto manufacturers to produce secure locks. Also, people keep voting for them so they don't think they're doing anything wrong.

Adding a clock to a key, so the code is only valid for a few seconds + keyless entry respond only active if the key was moved in the last 30 seconds, would solve most of the problems. That's like $5 per key?

Any dollars more than none is too many for auto companies and for dealerships. Even subsidizing it would still require them to spend time on the problem and that's quite unacceptable.

That's assuming that the technical problem, testing, rollout, etc. wouldn't run into any issues.

That all said, not all thefts are the kind that the Flipper team are describing (/the kind that the government is falsely blaming on the Zero). Lots of them are a lot simpler than that, even before getting to the Kia/Hyundai mess.

Actually making the mass car theft problem better would require a more in depth approach across several boundaries, and that's a lot more effort than just banning this tool.

A clock + challenge response is likely one of only a couple solutions to this problem, but the challenge is the "valid time" would need to be on the order of nanoseconds, not seconds to beat the relay attack mentioned in the article.

This might be doable but the authentication path would need entirely separate and dedicated circuitry.

Or maybe a cryptographic stream that is like a cumulative handshake (incremental streamed challenge/response?) that can offset some of the processing delay.

Any solution would need to be faster than nanoseconds because that's how long it takes light to travel a meter or two.

AFAIK Apple's UWB CarKeys solved this. Tesla until recently used BLE which is more susceptible (read: works at greater distance) to relaying.

I think you are right. Without knowing more detail, the claims of the protocol seem very cool. They are doing more than just Time of Flight calculations.

Looks like they do channel impulse response analysis with really high data rates.

Very interesting stuff, thanks for sharing.

For a quick fix, how about:

1. Competent police agency reverse engineer how relaying hardware works and how can such devices can be detected IRL.

2. Police sell relay device themselves and catch thieves red handed.

Because it's easier that actually catching and punishing the thieves.

I doubt they're actually flustered. It seems like they didn't even care enough to learn about what it is.

They just needed something to shove into the scapegoat-shaped hole, and Flipper Zero happened to fit.

Because the alternative would be to make some annoying demands of the auto industry, of various police services, and of CP Rail and the ports.

That's a lot of political capital to spend (or burn) on a lot of different groups, and would likely anger a lot of bases of power and financial support, for some citizen benefits that won't really pay off in the short term.

By contrast, banning a scary foreign hacker device with existing vague pop culture presence is a far more effective way of seeming like you're doing something with the average voter while not causing issues with any important groups and not having to spend much time or money.

The efficacy for stopping car thefts is not really the goal.

I am from India and want to buy one, anyone has any idea ?

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