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Comment by aaa_aaa | Hacker News Reader

Both patents and copyright laws are monopoly rights given by state. They are evil and should be abolished without exception. IP is not property, and empirical evindence shows they do more harm then good for humanity.

There are some avid supporters of this strain of thought. Here is an example: albeit old, this may give some background:

https://mises.org/library/book/against-intellectual-property

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> IP is not property, and empirical evindence shows they do more harm then good for humanity.

Although I agree with your position re IP not legitimately being property, I want to nitpick a bit here, and point out that empirical evidence can only substantiate empirical claims. Construing outcomes as "harm" or "good" is a normative evaluation, so this argument is an attempt to leap across the is-ought gap.

Reason I mentioned empirical evidence is for people who would not accept abolishing IP and copyright laws on philosophical grounds. Otherwise, for me its illegitimacy does not require evidence.

Same goes for means of production property

No. That is property and can be owned. IP is not tangible, can be exactly copied once observed, without effecting the original.

How are you defining 'ownership' in a tangible way?

Lockean way.

The core criterion for whether something can be property is whether it is economically rival, i.e. whether possession/use by one party inherently excludes others from equivalent possession/use. This is true for all physical resources, including most items that people regard as "means of production", making them natural property, but isn't true for most of the things IP laws apply to.

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