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Comment by wongarsu | Hacker News Reader

Software trying to update when it is started is such a common pattern, despite almost always going against user intent. When I start software, that's because I want to use it. It's pretty high on the list of times I don't want it to become temporarily unusable while it updates itself.

Doing the same with vehicle firmware is a sad but predictable state of things.

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Somewhere I saw an observation that the SF trope of "humans discover ancient technology, attempt to use it, hilarity ensues" fails suspension of disbelief for contemporary audiences, because we all know that right after the protagonists discover the ancient alien tech and switch it on, it'd be bricked for a good part of the next decade trying to retrieve and apply patches dating to when the Myriapoda first walked on dry land...

    Last update applied at z=???
    Looking for updates...
    Update server found [Alpha Centauri C]
    Retrieving updates... 0% of ??? YB

I can think of several devices I own that never do this.

1) My LG webOS TV. Somehow it always does its thing in the dark. OS and application updates have never been visible to me.

2) My car. Even though it can update over wifi, and by other means, it never tries to do it unbidden. You have to invoke its maintenance mode, at the time of your own choosing, if ever.

3) Google/Nest Wifi, OnHub, et cetera. Always up-to-date, never noticed it updating at any time in 8+ years.

However, I can also think of devices where the updates are prominent. macOS, iOS, iPadOS, and Android are all in your face about OS updates, and Android will even throw up a notification that some app updates are available, as if I want to think about that. ChromeOS is a little better in that it silently downloads and installs updates, and they are applied almost instantly, but it does prompt you to apply them.

My Eero wifi defaults to 4am for updates, which is changeable, and it warns me with a push notification the day before. I appreciate whoever implemented that particular subsystem.

how do car auto updates work?

I would inclined to believe that maybe the manufacturer sends out an email or sms to notify you of am update and then you choose the time, while also being given a change log of what exactly is being updated.

otherwise what would prevent a bogus server asking for an update you have no idea about and installing something malicious and - whoopsie daisy - your car grows legs and disappears?

Yes, I have a proper car from a real car company. They shipped working software the first time and "updates" are actually recalls for which the owner is notified, at the time of annual service for minor issues, or by mail for major issues.

You probably turn your TV and Nest on less than once per year. It's much easier for always on devices to update when they're not in use than an item like a scooter, which when it's off, it's actually off.

That said, I don't know why you would ever connect a transportation device to the internet. All of my vehicles are too old to connect to the internet, but when I finally have to replace them, the first thing I'll do is physically remove the Wi-Fi/cellular antenna

One pretty understandable reason for a transportation device to update itself is for new GPS ephemeris data. I think it would be cool if there was a device protocol that somehow securely promulgated such data from devices that are expected to be well-connected, like your smartphone, to "things" that are not, like watches and cameras and scooters.

You can just do the equivalent of a blue-green deployment: you have two copies of the firmware, a flag that tells you which is active, and a tiny bootloader that respects that flag on startup. At any point during regular operation the firmware can update the other copy, and once done toggle the flag. Next time the scooter is started it uses the new version. If the device is shut down during update it continues to boot from the old version, and just tries again next time. Bonus points if you have a small watchdog that toggles the flag if the current version fails to boot.

>> 2) My car. Even though it can update over wifi, and by other means, it never tries to do it unbidden.

Today. That could change tomorrow. We already have forced updates for popular operating systems. Mandatory "safety" updates for car software will come one day.

I'm waiting for the day that different states implement different software rules. Imagine if Nevada implemented speed-governors but Texas didn't. I see a world where everyone has to pull over at the state line to allow their car to reconfigure software in order to accommodate local rules.

I used Windows 10 for the first time in years this weekend to play games

While playing, Windows would switch from the game to a stupid "Restart your computer now or in 1 hour?" modal - with no option to get it to permanently go away. And it kept popping up every hour. Infuriating.

See screenshot here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/8kismw/wtf_micro...

To be fair, in Windows 11 this doesn't happen -- it detects when you are in games (or tries to) and withholds the messages.

Zoom asks if you want to update after a call, which seems the best time for it to me.

I just use the browser version, so I assume it is always the latest version. This is one of the compelling arguments for everything is a web page/app. A single centralized place version millions of separately controlled copies.

And the equally compelling anti-argument against everything-is-a-web-page is every time I go to a website I haven't been to in awhile (and some I use on the daily), I need to swat away a cacophony of "What's New! Let's Take a Tour!" popups, like so many cobwebs. :)

of course there are people that want to be examples of "you're why we can't have nice things" or "ruining for the rest of us"

Is that true? Maybe it's different on Mac OS, but for me (on a Mac), Zoom wants to update every time I open it, and often fails. It's very annoying.

I also have to frequently update it before the call on Windows.

Maybe it works as intended if you use it daily, but as someone who only occasionally uses Zoom for external calls I'm in the habit of always opening it a couple minutes early to have time for software updates

I am a few minutes late to meetings probably once a month because Zoom forces as an update right as I'm logging into a meeting.

One of very few things I hate about current Samsung phones - there are popups about updates of their preinstalled (and uninstallable) apps from their own store.

I always ignore it, and within few hours there is another notification how they were updated. Seems like most idiotic approach, illusion of choice, effectively frustrating users.

Also they randomly decide to "Optimize" apps on startup, making a startup go from 30 seconds to 5 minutes or something. Better hope you didn't turn on your phone to dial 911.

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