No user would ever suspect that the keyboard that came with their cell phone would be letting third parties read all their texts and emails to do those things. I'd assumed the keyboard was just a part of the OS. I only found out after I just happened to long press a key long enough to get an "about samsung keyboard" window and clicking around to find a privacy policy that said which company they were sending keystrokes to, and then reading that company's privacy policy.
I immediately found an open source keyboard to replace samsung's with. I'll say one thing for them, collecting everything everyone types into their devices meant that the samsung keyboard had really good spellchecking/predictive text capabilities. I'd never go back to using it, but there are times I wish the keyboard I replaced it with had a better spellchecker.
Maybe Google broke some API endpoint and the old keyboard didn't do the update grind.
No warning what so ever for their spyware taking over the keyboard functionally.
The need for some FOSS mobile is really over due by now.
Edit:
> I immediately found an open source keyboard to replace samsung's with
Which keyboard did you pick?
I did the mistake of trying to find one via Google Play. It pushes so much malware to the top and wont allow you to filter the search. Discoverability there is zero.
It is like I always forgot I need to use fdroid and open Play by muscle memory.
There is already a Foss mobile OS, it's called Android, or more specifically a distribution of it like LineageOS. But installing it is so difficult that only 1% of people have the technical know how to even attempt it, and it's getting more difficult as manufacturers introduce more and more hurdles in this process.
Which is all irrelevant anyway because the vast majority of people done even realise that everything they see, do, or type on their phones is reported to hundreds of companies, processed, and te-sold to thousands of companies all over the world.
We need regulation, full stop.
As I see it the problem is with the phone manufacturers, only supporting Google.
Also, there is this problem with banks requiring signed OS:es for their silly app "security".
Politicians of course have hard time with technology, so of course the regulation will be terrible for users, especially given the Big Tech lobbying, but still. We should do better.
You can bring this to the attention of other EU citizens so that they too badger their representatives about this. It's not like any individuals vote in a larger EU country is worth more than yours.
BTW magisk has a way to hide from the apps, so that might be the reason - that doesn't mean there isn't a problem with the regulation. But 2 of my 3 banks see through that. And one of them doesn't want to load on LineageOS even if it's not rooted because it's compiled in some dev mode that might allow something...
Aside: there is also /e/OS (or MurenaOS - their naming is inconsistent). It is basically LineageOS that someone else installs for you so you get everything in a package [0].
They sell many phones, but it also runs nicely on Fairphones if you want a phone that you can repair (there is of course a compromise in price / performance there - depends on what matters to you the most).
Not affiliated, just a happy customer.
From what I read, Murena has a Google Play services reimplementation that isn't compatible with Lineage. Is that still the case?
In /e/os/ they have their own app store, App Lounge, with which you can install apps from Google Play through the Google Play API, similar to how the Aurora store does it. And you can also find open-source and PWA apps in it.
More info: https://doc.e.foundation/support-topics/app_lounge
I use fdroid and aurora store for installing apps, and push notifications work nicely using microg. Of course microg needs to connect to G servers (no way around it), but at least it works and there is no G app running on the phone.
How did you discover this? Has it been written about? Seems pretty scandalous.
The Samsungs privacy policy on the web states this:
Samsung Keyboard information: The words that you type when you enable “Predictive text”. This feature may be offered in connection with your Samsung account to synchronise the data for use on your other Samsung mobile devices. You can clear the data by going to the “Predictive text” settings.
When we were young, this was called a keyloggger and one running was a sign that your computer was compromised.
I guess times have changed.
1. Samsung is able to sell phones like that legally. 2. People are not in jail. 3. Governments somehow think it's ok that random companies can see everything their citizens do online. National security risks maybe? Trade secret issues?
It's almost suspicious to the point where I would start thinking those third party spy companies are possibly (US/5 eyes) government run?
“Mind blowing” is too strong a word when every thread about Apple on HN is demanding the iPhone be opened up to the same, taking away non-tech people’s choice to buy a bloat free and privacy defaulted device designed to stay that way even if people more technically savvy try to hook in.
It’s a fine line, of course, since the same non-tech people love IAP and ad-supported, as shown by the folks opting into ads on Hulu, Netflix, and Amazon Prime decades after similarly opting into ads on paid cable. So how to let users have ad-tech supported apps, without ending up like the Android ecosystem?
> legally … not in jail
Apple’s approach was a curated ecosystem, and the level of hate for it tells you app makers aren’t worried they should be in jail, they’re worried iOS users have that sweet sweet “wallet share”. HN’s EU DMA threads tell you plenty voices don’t just want what they do legal, they want it illegal to slow their roll.
PS. A lot of big data and big analytics cross pollinates with the US government. Three letter agencies even do VC deals.
android's have done similar for a very long time; customers have known about it, and turn a blind eye cuz its a new-shiney
So it makes sense from a US-gov perspective.
My point was that the Samsung spyware is sending data about (for example) US users to non-US companies and government (South Korea). I guess they're also integral part of the NSA by now. I have no other explanation :P
The worst part is that the most used national ID-function now stops you from using third party "approved" keyboard due to (misguided) security reasons. Both AnySoftKeyboard and AOSP keyboard is banned.
I use it on all my Android devices. I block all traffic in most apps.
Some Android phones allow you to allow/block Data and/or WiFi separately. My Samsung 4G tablet doesn't allow me to switch off Data or WiFi for some apps, especially the system ones.
This is where NoRoot Firewall does all its good work. It has Global Block list (all ads/trackers go there) and for each app I individually block or allow certain IPs.
So if "Samsung Keyboard" app wants to send your typing home, you block Data/WiFi and leave it trying :)
The Samsung replacement apps is down to personal preference, I find them easier to use than Google "originals".
Having casually interacted with phones from other brands, I consider Samsung among the best Android options as far as software and UX goes.
But even with everything disabled (predictive text, spell checker (as may be obvious reading this), ...), it does cause network traffic.
Any login-data ever used can now be considered leaked. Great.
The newer phones (since ~2019) don't have Bixby, and Google Pay launches automatically when touching an NFC posnet.
I've used couple carrier branded phones, that `pm list` commands I posted in a different comment returns literally more than dozen of com.carrier.carriertrademark packages.
No one in their right mind is suggesting Samsung. Heck, similar to Apple, you have swaths of people warning you about Samsung.
Samsung lives and dies off their huge marketing budget. Buying their phone is more of a psychology thing, than 'I did lots of research and I bought a high quality phone'.
Maybe they got me with their clever marketing but there doesn't seem to be competitive hardware in this class (fast, oled screen, 5g, overall build quality) available from another manufacturer.
Google Pixel 5a... The last Google product before they went full Apple.
Other than the palm pre, my first smartphone was the galaxy nexus. It's still probably my favorite smartphone ever -- samsung hardware and google software both going full throttle really is the ideal, but for some reason they just don't play ball like that anymore.
I got a ZenFone8 when it came out and was very satisfied with it at the time. Then, a month later, posts started popping up with people reporting that their phones just randomly rebooting and bricking. I think there were a few hundred cases reported. To this day, there is no official response from Asus. I used to carry a backup phone with me every time I was away from home for longer than a day because I was afraid that my phone could die at any moment.
Also, every update seemed to introduce a new bug that only got fixed in a month or so with the next update. So we had broken face unlock for a month, broken Google Pay, broken notifications, among other things.
I haven't been following reports for the ZF9 or ZF10, but I think they had similar problems.
To top it all off, the official unlocker / root tool from ASUS has been disabled for over a year by now, and nobody knows when it will work again.
All in all, ASUS phones (at least the ZenFone line) do have great hardware, but official support is abysmal.
I got a Samsung S21 as my daily driver, but just wanted to check out a non-Samsung one over time.
So far I've been very impressed. It comes with Google apps for almost everything, the Moto specific stuff seems to be addons you can easily ignore.
Even came with a transparent protective case and audio jack.
Performance-wise I don't notice any difference in normal use, ie surfing, pictures and such. I don't play games though, there the S21 would blow it out of the water according to benchmarks.
Screen isn't quite as good, but close enough that I'd be happy with it as a primary phone.
Only thing that's a bit of a downer is they only do 3 years of security upgrades it seems. This is a bit short I feel.
Haven't tried any of the other brands over time in recent years, just adding my 2 cents.
Apple and Samsung are the two most popular phone brands in the world, so it's not like "everybody knows not to use them" as you suggest. Actually, it's the complete opposite.
This is a ridiculous take. Samsung is the entire reason Android didn't go the way of WebOS and Windows Phone.
Samsung had pressure-sensitive pen support on Android 5 years before iOS. Samsung DEX desktop environment can turn my phone into a proper work machine with just a USB-C display cable and a lapdock.
They've also had folding phones that can turn your phone into a tablet for several years, but I suppose we'll need to wait until 2030 when Apple launches it "the right way" to recognize it as an innovative form factor.
it sounds fantastic hence i suppose there is a catch
The catch with Dex is that it's only offered on the high end models: Galaxy S and Galaxy Z Fold series phones.
For me it's more of "I'm no longer a kid so I don't have time to do lots of research". Samsung gets my money because their flagships are reliably good.
riiigth.
> First, please note that unless you have opted in to use a Microsoft SwiftKey Account on your Android device, all personal and language data generated by Microsoft SwiftKey is stored locally on your device and is never transferred.
I use it since it seamlessly swaps between enabled languages. I can write something like "meet me at Østerport Station" smoothly.
I actually use the Samsung web browser, because it allows ad-blocking out of the box, which Chrome on Android won't allow...
I've always used gboard as a keyboard (googles keyboard) and disabled the options to get really predictive and smart as I'm sure that makes it learn more closely and potentially send back data to google etc.
It's insane how prevalent this is. The other day, I opened my calculator app and was met with a cookie banner (https://imgur.com/a/njJEiqY) - I uninstalled it on the spot out of sheer incredulity. The irony was that I originally installed Simple Calculator because it was simple and open source, so I presumed it would escape being a trojan horse for data collection. I guess not.
There's a group that forked the original open source apps:
I only had 1 poor quality phone that cost $400, 10 years ago, and I was traumatized.
Occasionally I get a work Samsung phone and they really are the Apple of Android.
(I get the impression from your comments in this thread that maybe you're trying to create such a consensus or the illusion thereof, to get people used to seeing Apple casually referred to as an exemplar of some unstated kind of badness, or something like that. That sort of thing never works.)
Sony Ericsson, Motorola - Pretty much stock Android. Though this was almost a decade ago, so not sure what's their state now.
Xiaomi - Absolutely filled with bloat, but really cheap + flagship specs. Easily fixed by flashing LineageOS.
Pixel 1st gen - No bloat, stock
Asus - My current phone. No bloat, though it has a lightweight skin + QoL stuff that I don't mind. I use it non-rooted + stock OS
Presumably if you go far enough back you’d find warnings of dystopia applied to coming down from the trees.