Gut bacteria–derived serotonin promotes immune tolerance in early life in mice | Hacker News Reader

Gut bacteria–derived serotonin promotes immune tolerance in early life in mice

science.org

34 pointsbookofjoe19 comments

This study found that in baby mice, certain friendly bacteria in the gut make a chemical called serotonin. This chemical helps the baby mice's immune systems accept both the good bacteria and the foods they eat without attacking them. Normally, our bodies can mistakenly see food or good bacteria as invaders, leading to allergies or other immune problems. The researchers discovered that this serotonin from gut bacteria teaches special immune cells to be more accepting, preventing such mistakes. This is especially important in early life when the immune system is still learning what to ignore and what to fight against. So, in a nutshell, the good bacteria in baby mice's guts are helping to train their immune systems to not overreact to things that are actually harmless, using serotonin as a teaching tool.

The interesting part of this is that seratonin is a neurotransmitter so it's interesting to see it potentially relevant in a different organ system.

The gut microbiome is coming out as linked to so much more in the body that we ever imagined previously. My theory is that I got RA due to depression and horrible diet (because doctors can't exactly tell). Lack of serotonin threw the immune system off.

Seperately, issues with dopamine change how the brain perceives and flags pain signals. In someone with a deficiency and suffering from chronic pain the two are linked.

Yes I think this pattern will get much clearer in the near future. We already see these links with chronic illness, depression, etc and gut dysbiosis. One thing I wouldn’t count out is the effect of lingering virus or viral antigens causing regular immune system stimulation leading to various unexplained illnesses to varying degrees. They also can contribute heavily to gut dysbiosis which may be linked with serotonin production and other things. Knowing how bacteria plays together is one thing but we also need to understand how pathogens can affect our guts as well!

Yeah, low grade infection persisting was also a possibility. As well as dysregulation from nicotine/alcohol/cannabis overuse and lack of meaningful reliable social interaction. The full college experience in short. Up to that point I thought the most likely and dangerous ailments were from acute injury (which I was deft at avoiding during risky thrill-seeking behavior). But I believe I had it completely backwards.

This might be interesting to you: https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M23-1831

It is suggested that many viruses can do this.

I appreciate it. I'm thankful the lifestyle guidelines are improving in adoption rates and quality. What I mean is that more and more diet and exercise (and meditation) are as key as any highly successful targeted drug. The idea is to do all simultaneously. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biopsychosocial_model?wprov=sf...

There are studies (multi-generational long-term) telling us that positive/meaningful social experience is one of if not the greatest factor in affecting healthspan.

what is RA?

Rheumatoid arthritis, an autoimmune condition that affects joints and/or organs by inflammation.

People taking SSRIs are familiar with it having effects in other organs, lolsob…in the human gut excess serotonin induces diarrhea and vomiting

Somehow I’d never encountered “lolsob” before — how useful! Thanks.

Everything in biology is interconnected random chance use of the same blocks that worked over a long enough time.

I wonder if there's any bad bacteria that have evolved to trick the immune system that way.

There are pathogens that have!

https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(23)01034-6

this is behind kombucha being marketed as a "health product" - the establishment of a the right amount of cognitive dissonance so that one day, a guy walks into a bar and orders a 6% kombucha in order to feel like he just went to the gym

What excites me the most is if we are successful with projects like https://www.humanimmunomeproject.org/ and to map our findings to the prior Human Microbiome project - https://www.hmpdacc.org/overview/ which tactful AI applications can likely find more novel findings given majority of our immune system is found in the gut. Serotonin is mostly created there, and dopamine has a strong production presence there as well.

So many great books on this recently: I contain multitudes, Immune, Song of the Cell, etc.

Gut + Immune System = Future cures to many diseases

I have this suspicion that all of the antibiotic usage has lead to a rise in allergies, especially those in food.

I am not sure how to prove this, but more articles like this around gut bacteria seem to suggest a link.

I haven't been prescribed antibiotics for "normal" illness like a sore throat for more than a decade, but I have taken them for various dental operations (mostly implants), and I hate the way they mess up my digestion. It goes almost palpably wrong.

I wouldn't be surprised by wider systemic effects either. When it comes to the role of the gut biome in our health, we are still in the discovery phase.

Resistant starch such as raw, unmodified potato starch is good for gut bacteria. It survives the stomach environment and travels undigested to the colon and gets broken down by the gut flora there.

It also gives you very vivid dreams if taken an hour or two before bed.

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