Refund fraud schemes on TikTok, Telegram cost Amazon, other retailers billions | Hacker News Reader

Refund fraud schemes on TikTok, Telegram cost Amazon, other retailers billions

cnbc.com

29 pointsrntn34 comments

Not defending people who steal, but Amazon especially have purposefully chosen to use a system whereby they don't really track this sort of thing: because it's historically been cheaper for them to just accept returns without checking than to check them.

Previously the small losses from people who were stealing were < the price they'd have to pay to have systems in place to check this stuff in depth.

I've received stuff from Amazon where they've sent me an empty box with no product in it - because the previous person probably "returned" it, then I have to be the one who reports "uhh...the thing I bought isn't actually in the box".

I buy a lot on Amazon business and prime. Never have I gotten an empty box. That's interesting, are they shipping you used products?

Not sure, shouldn't be used but I've still had a Samsung SSD show up without the m.2 SSD in the box and the same for some ram (when I went from 16GB to 32GB a couple years later).

I feel like this behaviour is in part a reaction to infinite growth and the accumulation of wealth these days. The divide is becoming so large that nobody can aspire to have the things that they want to have, which is all the more depressing for gen z knowing that previous generations have allowed trillionaires to exist, and the general political attitude from wannabe millionaires and billionaires is that everything is OK.

Can you name a natural person who owns or ever owned 1 trillion USD in assets.

I had a sloppily resealed switch game sent to me. It was without the game in it. At least I got my money back. I hate this trust less society.

I've bought a lot from Amazon Warehouse and never had this. I have had products that don't work though.

I'm guessing they break after a while and people buy a new one, then return the broken one. This is a bit pointless though as Amazon's guarantee is really good (in Europe at least).

A few years ago I got my wife an iPhone SE and after 1 and a half years it stopped working. I took it to an Apple repair center, and they said if I bought it there they would replace it - but as it was bought from another retailer I needed to return it to them. I contacted Amazon and they said as that model was no longer sold, they would refund the full amount I paid. Not bad.

Twice I’ve been a delivered a box with my name but a bunch of random stuff inside. One time I received fake RAM that was a foil blanket inside a shoddy RAM package.

It's absolutely bizarre that TikTok is not only mentioned in the headline but mentioned first. According to the actual Amazon complaint, REKK operates via Telegram, Reddit, Nulled, Discord and recruits via Reddit and LinkedIn. Nowhere is TikTok even mentioned in the 44-page complaint!

Amazon complaint (https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/24204198/govuscourtsw...)

> REKK targets Amazon's online stores in the United States, Canada, and Europe. Among other places, the REKK Operator Defendants use the Telegram accounts "@refundingelub," "@rekks," "@rekksupport," and "@rekkvouches' to advertise their services and interact with people seeking to obtain fraudulent refunds from Amazon. The REKK Operator Defendants also advertise their services and interact with people seeking fraudulent refunds on Nulled (under username "rekk"), Reddit (under username "rekksalt" and subreddit "/REKKRefundService"), and Discord (under usemame "rekk#5319").

...

> REKK identifies and recruits Amazon employees to join ts scheme. REKK recruits these insiders on Reddit, LinkedIn, or directly on its Telegram channel...

...

> Amazon respectfully prays for the following relief: That the Court issue an order permanently enjoining all Defendants [from] Using or interacting with any Telegram, Nulled, Reddit, Discord, or other 18 private channel media platforms, accounts, servers, or channels affiliated 19 with the fraudulent refund scheme;

NYT coverage (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/business/amazon-refund-fr...):

> The 44-page complaint said that REKK marketed itself through social media channels like Reddit and the encrypted messaging app Telegram as a paid service that allowed users to buy products from online retailers and pretend to return them, keeping both the product and the refund.

> It's absolutely bizarre that TikTok is not only mentioned in the headline but mentioned first.

No, this is normal journalism. Title is everything, the content does not matter.

The main purpose of journalism is spreading propaganda, under the pretext of informing you.

Just from the title, this sounds just like the whole "stores are closing because people are stealing too much" lie that the news was pushing just a year or so ago.

There should be laws stating that news corporations should have reasonable belief that the stories they are telling are based on factual data. Otherwise it's not news, it's make-believe and should be clearly identified as such.

For instance, "Cost Billions" and "(Potentially) Cost Billions" are two wildly separate things. I could intentionally "Potentially murder dozens of people" but I will actually only ever intentionally murder 0 people, but if you wanted people to think I was a mad man killing everything in sight, then all you would have to do is put () around Potentially and after the fact say that it was implied.

> stating that news corporations should have reasonable belief that the stories they are telling are based on factual data.

But they "are based on factual data". That is the essence of propaganda.

I've noticed general poor moral behavior around finance and business with gen-z'ers especially. I think victim mentality; oppressor vs oppressed mind virus is partly to blame. Social media (instagram, TikTok) encourages young people to be flashy... Show your cars, watches, houses, women show your T&A for attention, the likes, comments at all costs. Being unscrupulous, morally bankrupt and "frugal" is encouraged and seen as part of the way to become successful.

The only new part of that behavior is the platform upon which it's being displayed and how more readily available it is to everyone.

If you removed Gen z/TikTok from that sentence. I'd have thought you were talking about millenials and MySpace/Facebook/Instagram. Before that I'd have thought you were talking about Gen X/Millenials and MTV. Before that News Papers, the news, and TV shows before that. It's human nature to want to flash success (even if faked), and sex has always sold. Nothing new here.

Correct this has been around forever, but TikTok, Instagram, OnlyFans have made everybody feel like they are important (exponential amplification). Average people now can make absurd amounts of money and fame by being the most flashy, bombastic, and slutty. Morally bankrupting its users. I am a staunch free speech proponent, but I do have serious concerns with the mental wellbeing of young people (in my forties) due to these platforms.

That is how only fans is selling itself, but most people aren't making bank, and the ones who are, are generally running a business where they're paying people to do all the "engagement" related stuff.

The higher paid folks are models who are also business owners. It's just modeling without "talent agencies" being gatekeepers on who can be a model

Every generation has been saying some form of this about the next generation. If there is "moral decay", you'd expect shoplifting to go up, for instance. The crime statistics don't seem to support that narrative.

If you don’t think TikTot and OnlyFans are a new level of degeneracy, you’re not paying attention or in denial.

I hear you. I just want to point out that the same thing was said about video games in the last generation, and about comic books a couple of generations before that.

They're only a new level of degeneracy if you pretend that sex workers aren't physically displaying themselves in windows or selling themselves on the street.

Or are they just more widely disseminated? Could it be that previous generations were as degenerated, but it never spread any further so in the end no one heard for all the stupid things that teens and kids did?

Lol, gotta love the moral panic on literally the oldest profession.

Tiktok isn't degeneracy, it's exactly what you expect to come out of a capitalism infused ad-based economy. It's a hostile market for your attention, what did you expect? Things that are entirely fueled by economic incentives and interests are not moral decay. The US has been like this since the very beginning. We literally promised the south not to ban slavery for a long time because otherwise they would not have voted to join the Union because it would hurt their economy to not own black human beings

This is an oversimplification. The north also had an economy that made quite a bit of bank off of southern slave labor: mills in New England would not make sense if not for slave hands in the south.

Umm shoplifting and crime is up. When is the last time you’ve been to San Francisco? Just like we didn’t have a border crisis when liberals were all anti-ice and anti border-wall. Naive, and fog of their own political fantasy ideologies.

Largely driven by atheism but acknowledging that is taboo.

The US is due for some stormy times when the Zoomers are “leaders”.

Is there actually an uptick in crime/theft among gen z vs previous generations?

lol what? belief in a sky daddy has nothing to do with crime... last i checked the sky daddy followers are just as corruptible and dangerous as non-sky daddy followers.

I was 13 once too.

And I hope you were not around many catholic priests when you were.

Father Logan was great. He smoked cigarettes, drank beer, and drove a Camaro.

Morality is not exclusive to theism. This is obvious. And if some people need to be scared into behaving morally, instead of reasoning their way to it, you can do it by other means than preaching fire and brimstone. So, no.

And religious leaders are moral? I thought things like prosperity gospel and faith healers are extremely common in non-atheist circles?

Zoomers will never escape samsara! I assume that's what you meant, right?

Thanks for the daily dose of intolerance motivated by “religion”.

The leader point is also comic considering how well it’s been going with the current boomer leaders.

Are you telling me that today's teenagers aren't fully socially adjusted and can't be trusted to behave with integrity?

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