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Comment by ntkachov | Hacker News Reader

The other end of the problem is that kid's aren't even trying to flip their degree. Most kids consider college and experience not an investment.

You're kid is the worst investor on the planet. Because instead of majoring in Bioengineering they are majoring in psychology. And If they are majoring in psychology they aren't out to get the best damn research positions over the summer and publish papers, they are out working for the local supermarket.

I don't think most students have been asked "What return do you expect on the $100,000 you are going to spend on this degree".

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Most kids consider college and experience not an investment.

How many are there due to pressure? At the end of my high school career, I was ready to enter the workforce. I was already working in the industry I wanted to be in; there was little value to going from that perspective. Yet, the pressure from teachers and peers persisted. I was going to fail in life if I didn't go to school. You know the meme, I'm sure. I eventually succumbed and enrolled. Thankfully, I realized in my first year that I was wasting my time.

I picked up another job, used it to hone my experience in the industry, and by the time my friends were graduating, I was able to move myself into my dream job. I really don't see how a post-secondary education could have improved anything. It would have only been a hobby, which too is respectable, but not the right fit for me at that point in my life.

There's so much malarkey that goes around about education, it leads young people, without a clear view of how the world really works, to make hasty decisions that often ends with a massive amount of debt. I admire those who are in school for the right reasons, I just question how many really are there for the right reasons. I know I wasn't. I'm just glad I realized sooner than later.

I think this is the relevant point that most people are missing by looking at the trees instead of the forest.

It's patently absurd to think that every single person should go to college and receive a 3 or 4 year degree. For a start, some people will not be suited to study, and for a second, increased numbers of higher education qualifications simply reduce the value of said qualification.

More people would be better served by direct time in the workforce and specific vocational training.

But the meme of 'go to college or miss out' is pervasive, and continues to cause massive amounts of people to put major time and money into their qualifications. Education has become a sacred cow that nobody is allowed to criticise, yet objectively there is no evidence that increased amounts of college graduates are making a positive difference.

I'm all for continuing education - education should be a lifetime pursuit for everyone - but the current model of growing universities and growing student debt is clearly unsustainable. The growth has to at least stop at some point, and probably reverse.

Until people start looking at the cost/benefit ratio objectively instead of emotionally, nothing is going to change.

This is completely what's wrong with the system. Eventually everybody needs to work for money. That's not to say you can't go to University to better yourself and learn something that inspires you. Eventually, though, you have to eat and pay for creature comforts. If college has a huge sticker price, what's paying the bill? If not college, something else has to. Everybody who goes to school needs to make sure that they can cover the costs, either through the skills they learn in college or via some other means.

Going to college to study liberal arts is still a very respectful thing to do, if that's what you actually intend to do...as opposed to going to college, cutting classes, getting wasted 5 days a week and graduating with a C average in psychology.

Going to college to study liberal arts is a respectful thing to do if you either pay for it up front without loans or have a reasonable path planned out after college that should pay the loans back.

Studying something in college that will not lead to a future career is a hobby, not an investment. Spending large amounts of loan money on a hobby that cannot pay the loans back is a very silly thing to do.

Liberal arts degrees are great, and a good learning experience for students. But they aren't worth taking out loans for if there are not jobs to pay those loans back.

> Most kids consider college and experience not an investment

Fantastic point.

Not only should the students/parents be asking themselves about what return they expect on $100k, the people loaning the money should be too. And because the feds are the ones guaranteeing the money, they don't care about the return, they just care about politicizing it to their advantage.

Most students do not spend 100k on a degree. While some are under massive amounts of debt, most have a much more manageable level of debt, but still can't pay without a job.

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