More than 4% of all Bitcoin supply is now in ETFs | Hacker News Reader

More than 4% of all Bitcoin supply is now in ETFs

dune.com

13 pointsjanandonly30 comments

Funny how counter culture is now institutional ~_~

This is a tangent, but I'm genuinely shocked that "dune.com" is not the website for the Dune franchise.

More proof that Bitcoin is an investment plan and not money.

For comparison, what percentage of money is in ETFs?

"Money" is a much squishier concept. There is no "market cap" for dollars from which you can compute a fraction. In fact, the most common measures of "money supply" view securities as resources/property/objects and not money. In fact in fact, the purchase/sale of a debt security like a bond is the primary way that money is "created" in the economy.

The closest you could come to answering this question would be to ask Fidelity, Vanguard, etc... how much of their investment account balances are held in ETFs. I have no idea what the answer is.

$9tn - around 2.1% of global wealth. Equivalent to 4x more than the physical USD$ currency in circulation, and equivalent to around 2x the value held in deposits at commercial US banks.

Isn't this the opposite side of the trade? That sounds like how much money is invested in ETFs representing other stuff and not how many dollars are locked up in ETFs as the underlying asset.

Are you asking, of the global monetary supply of USD, how much is parked in financial vehicles that people then trade shares on to speculate its change in value rather than interest yield or dividends? Does that even exist for an inflationary currency?

Money is used to transact, it doesn't "sit" in ETFs. e.g. if I buy a share from you that money goes from person A (the buyer) to person B (the seller), it doesn't "sit" in the stock.

Now ETFs can hold some cash, but in general they're invested almost wholly in their target asset, so they hold the assets instead of cash.

You seem to be mistaking market value for money

Probably rather little, if money here is in general any world currency. As other instruments like debt do much better job...

ETF does not usually hold "money", so it does not make sense to ask about "percentage". ETF does however hold stocks and the like. According to BlackRock, "ETFs represent 12.7% of equity assets in the U.S., 8.5% in Europe, and 4.4% in Asia-Pacific." [1] But I think the closest should be comparing to Gold ETF since Bitcoin now is more considered to be a commodity, or event "digital gold". It would be around 2% according to Wikipedia. [2]

[1]: https://www.ishares.com/us/insights/global-etf-facts#:~:text....

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_holdings

Don't they say 20 percent of your cash should be in savings?

As an individual perhaps. Should 20% of all fiat be in savings accounts? That may depend on what portion is in the hands of individuals vs companies, governments, etc.

Bitcoin as money died a while back. Now, it is going to replace gold and other assets.

I just don't understand why anyone who "hodls" Bitcoin, and the similar, trust the price - as it's not grounded on anything?

So it's grounded on encryption. Break the encryption and all is worthless tomorrow.

If someone were able to break Bitcoin's encryption we'd have much bigger problems to worry about - It would upend modern cryptography.

I think there is enough people who have brainwashed themselves that Bitcoin is the magical new super gold... Add to this cohort of grifters who peddle it and gold... Some "sound money" theorist in too.

I'm believe our current economic system entirely bonkers and going to crash, but that doesn't mean we won't build it on fiat again... But some people think we will go back to some type of hard money... For which bitcoin is the internet age grift...

Dropped yesterday: "Peter Schiff vs Raoul Pal Debate: Bitcoin Going To $0 or $1 Million & A Great Depression Coming?" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfHCly1ZCQ0

Where Raoul has refined his narrative but still ends with attempting to demonize, fear monger, and attempting to instil doubt that (or perhaps it's part of self-soothing) that maybe the other side ("anti-Bitcoiners") is simply too rigid in their logic - and why their logic, that seemingly "pro-Bitcoiners" are starting to understand - so they just need to be sure to loosen up some, in case their solid logic is too strict; the irony here is that thinking or advice here is projecting.

what is gold grounded it? its value for circuits? or because other people want gold?

youve been able to hold bitcoin in a retirement account for a decade now, depending on your start date ... could be a good or bad investment.

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/GBTC/chart#eyJpbnRlcnZhbCI6I...

if you bought at any time besides in the year 2021, your investment held its value. at this point, its just a place to park value, until its not. unlike the other comment saying its not gold, it clearly is functioning as gold-like.

Bitcoin as M1 "base" money has surpassed the British Pound in value[1], and has surpassed the US dollar FedNow network in number of payments[2].

[1] https://www.nobsbitcoin.com/bitcoin-is-now-5th-largest-base-... [2] https://rumble.com/v4h9oqc-483-bitcoin-is-the-7th-largest-ba...

It's not money in the real sense. You can't buy water with it. You can't buy medicine with it. You can't buy land with it. The map is not the territory with Bitcoin.

I guess you could if you're willing and able to pay someone else to make the purchase on your behalf; I doubt it's a widespread practice though.

I am a European, so when I visit the USA or the UK I would be "unable" to buy anything with my credit card ?

No, of course not: the payment provider does an on-the-fly conversion for me into whichever currency is required on the other end.

There are a ton of banks that now give out credit cards that support Bitcoin wallets. I, personally, have 3: Revolut (https://www.revolut.com/crypto/), BitPanda (https://www.bitpanda.com/en/card) and Wirex (https://wirexapp.com/card).

There are more options in the EU (such as Xapo Bank) and even more in the US, like Strike (https://www.strike.me) and Cash app.

Its worth noting that FedNow was only rolled out in July of 2023[1] making it a poor measuring stick for total transactions, since most banks have not yet adopted the standard yet.

[1]https://www.investopedia.com/what-is-fednow-7963716

Any money first has to establish itself as a stable store of value. Only then can it be useful as a medium of exchange and unit of account.

Look up Gresham and Thiers' Laws

The global mass migration is driving the value to new high.

When is it going to crash though? Been hearing that for years now. Not sarcasm, genuine question.

The price measured in other currencies fluctuates, of course, mostly in ~4 year waves.

Miners have to sell massive amounts of bitcoin regularly to pay their electricity bills. So there's a solid floor on the amount of supply. If demand ever goes below this supply floor the price will crash.

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