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Comment by anghyflawn | Hacker News Reader

It's not so much alcohol consumption per se as the culture. In the UK, and in general in much of historically protestant northern Europe, there is a very deeply ingrained culture where Bad Things will happen if you drink; the flip side of that is that if you do drink, it is much more socially acceptable to go out and get in a fight (after all, that's what you do when you're drunk, right?). In many Mediterranean cultures people do not consume significantly less alcohol (normally in the form of wine, of course), but people are generally more relaxed about this, and as a consequence there is less binge drinking and fewer drunken brawls.

Here is a report on this: http://www.sirc.org/publik/drinking7.html, or, for a less technical explanation, see Kate Fox's Watching the English

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I grew up in a Mediterranean country and live in Northern Europe now and I think your observations about the different attitudes towards alcohol are very accurate.

Drinking is very common in Southern Europe, but there feels to be a very negative attitude towards drinking to the point where you lose control and do utterly stupid things. In Northern Europe, I have witnessed young people in many settings openly sharing stories of binge drinking, getting in fights, getting kicked out of bars etc. and laughing about them. When I was back in my hometown and shared some party stories they were generally encountered with shock.

Yeah, I've seen both sides as well; in the Netherlands we have this 'coma drinking' thing going on which is young people drinking until they pass out/fall into a coma. In southern Spain, people on average, during the week/weekend drink far far more than Dutch people drink, however they don't binge. It's just drinking from morning to night a few liquors, beers and bottles of wine, every day. While in NL a lot of people drink nothing all week and then go insane in the weekend. In the UK that's even worse. No idea why. Anyone?

There's also a food culture there and alcohol gtts consumed with a meal, whereas in the UK people scorn having food when it takes up drinking time - "eating is cheating" I've heard from many a folk.

In many Mediterranean cultures people do not consume significantly less alcohol (normally in the form of wine, of course), but people are generally more relaxed about this, and as a consequence there is less binge drinking and fewer drunken brawls.

Unfortunately, that seems to be changing, both here in Portugal and, from what I can tell, also in Spain. Newer generations have changed their drinking patterns from wine to distilled drinks and from the couple of daily glasses to the full bottle on weekends, with all the issues (including health related) that carries.

It's a nice theory, but falls to pieces in say traditionally Catholic Ireland (history of powerful temperance movements also) and a cultural approach to alcohol which is if anything even more damaging than Britain's.

Ireland is a temperance culture as well (not surprisingly). Protestantism is not a necessary factor here, it's just that historically temperance cultures have tended to appear in Protestant countries, along with pietistic movements. I don't know enough about this to say whether religion has played a major role or if it's just a coincidence.

"In the UK, and in general in much of historically protestant northern Europe, there is a very deeply ingrained culture where Bad Things will happen if you drink"

Possibly the most inaccurate statement ever made on HN. :-)

Don't take this the wrong way, but I'm not sure what you mean :). It's not like I'm making this stuff up, social anthropologists have known about "temperance cultures" for a long time. Ever notice how Mediterranean countries don't have a history of mass temperance movements, which have been very strong in Britain, the US and Scandinavia? Do you think it's a freak coincidence?

I think the op is making a joke about other things that happen when drunk...

I'd hardly describe temperance as ever having been the majority view across the UK. Indeed, even when districts were allowed to vote to be "dry" (under the Temperance (Scotland) Act 1913) relatively few did so.

Interestingly enough, one of the villages that did, Findochty, was close to where I grew up - and they only stopped being dry relatively recently.

So I would personally regard "temperance" as being the view of a small, but highly active, minority. We don't have a temperance culture but a drinking culture.

Sure, temperance has never been a majority view. But that is not the issue: the issue is that the culture is conducive to viewing alcohol consumption as something that will inevitably lead to the breakdown of social order. This is something that Mediterranean countries tend not to have.

"This is something that Mediterranean countries tend not to have."

Last time I checked a lot of Mediterranean countries frown upon the consumption of alcohol - even if they tolerate visiting Europeans consuming it in large quantities.

Really? You use an article from an alcohol industry PR group to try to found your assertion that alcohol consumption doesn't impair judgement and raise the likelihood of destructive behavior?

Of course it does, it would be preposterous to contend otherwise. That doesn't mean the findings are null and void.

>Really? You use an article from an alcohol industry PR group to try to found your assertion that alcohol consumption doesn't impair judgement and raise the likelihood of destructive behavior?

No, mr knee-jerk-reaction, he used to it show something entirely different, namely different cultural ways to handling the issue.

Your "alcohol-is-the-devil" reaction is part of the problem, and indicative of the American/protestant attitude.

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