Comment by wolverine876 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by wolverine876 | Hacker News Reader

From the NY Times coverage:

The company had been asked to produce any documentation it had related to the removal and re-installation of the panel. ... Boeing said it had conducted an extensive search but could not find a record of the information ...

“We likewise have shared with the N.T.S.B. what became our working hypothesis: that the documents required by our processes were not created when the door plug was opened,” the Boeing letter reads. “If that hypothesis is correct, there would be no documentation to produce.”

In the letter, Boeing also said that it had sent the N.T.S.B. all of the names of the individuals on the 737 door team on March 4, two days after it was requested.

How laughably shameless: Offer the lowest-level employees as sacrifices, while burning any connection up the chain to the rest of Boeing. If Trump wins, and Boeing pays what he asks, the government might blame those employees.

Watch for the leaks that begin to smear them - alcohol use, a history of (something bad), etc. A traditional way the powerful destroy the weak is to use far superior media resources to smear them. True or not, ordinary people can't fight a tide of disinformation about them.

There is no way to excuse behaviour of the people working on the door that day, none.

Stopping at that level won't work there, Boeing tries to spin it that way, but this plane was not the only one woth issues on the door plug. And they already admitted that there was a work around decision loop regarding the necessary documentation work. And FAA audits do not stop at individuals and their behaviour, the explicitely focus on processes and culture (I assume FAA does in principle the same thing EASA does).

But hey Boeing tried to blame the 737 Max crashes on the pilots, so I guess trying the same with shop floor teams tracks.

> There is no way to excuse behaviour of the people working on the door that day, none.

I'll wait for all the facts and their defense before drawing a conclusion (and even then, I really don't know and would trust a jury more). IME, pointing moral outrage at seemingly sure targets turns out to be a sure way to make myself the sinner.

I am in aerospace, and working at that door plug the way it was done, is simply unexcuseable. No documentation, doing non-standard work, sloppy work on the safety critical bolts... Overall culture is to blame, no doubt about that. And still, it does not absolve the rank and file.

> working at that door plug the way it was done, is simply unexcuseable. No documentation, doing non-standard work, sloppy work on the safety critical bolts

You're assuming all that is true. Do we have more than Boeing's possible CYA claims to go on? (An honest question.) Also, have we heard their side of the story?

It peetty much looks like that; Boeing admitted there is no documentation to come by, it was not the only time the mistake happened and we have rather credible whistelblower. Add to that a DoJ investigation, and the above looks like a realistic scenario.

We will know once the FAA and NTSB did their investigation and audits, and published their reports.

Just to repeat: When you work in aerospace, you do not work on an aircraft without documenting your work and any deviations or non-conformities. Period. And even if you are forced and pressured by higher ups to do so, you do it properly. The fact that we have a whistleblower tells me rank and file are less than happy with the status quo so. Doesn't change the fact that someone made a serious mistake working on an aircraft. That alone is serious, even if it wouldn't have resulted in an incident.

Thanks, and thanks for your insider insights.

> Boeing admitted there is no documentation to come by

Doesn't that serve Boeing's interests, to bury any record of possible harmful events, and to also bury the record of that information passing through other hands at Boeing?

In other words, should 'Boeing admitted' be taken at face value, as an admission of guilt, rather than a possible coverup of much worse and a way to throw the line workers under the wheels?

No, the intentional absence of documentation is in itself a serious issue. It can even be assumed that tjis documentation, wpupd it exist, wouod proof wrong doing. It tje opposite of Boeing interest to hide stuff.

The NTSB asked for those names, this isn't just Boeing offering up scapegoats.

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