Hacker News Reader

Comment by ericabiz | Hacker News Reader

Hi,

I have no idea if you are a woman or a man, but as a woman in tech, I feel compelled to reply.

I appreciated this story. Not so much the comments attached to it on HN, but the story itself. If it got some guys thinking about how they would feel if this happened:

"You don't look like a programmer! When did you get into computers? That's kinda hot..."

Which has happened to me so many times I've lost count...usually followed closely by "Are you single?"

If it gets guys to stop saying THAT...then it was well worth the whole thing.

View on HN

Many people tell me I don't seem like a programmer, and quite a few are surprised to discover I went to college or do non-manual labor. There is just something about my personality that suggests to people I'm not a knowledge worker, unless the topic comes up in conversation.

They have heuristics, priors and reasoning which lead them to correct results most of the time. Maybe they are even irrational and have a sucky predictor.

I know how I feel about this - meh.

Incidentally, why do you feel that being found attractive is a problem? And is this also a problem in fields with 50% women?

I'm a man (and yes, my first name is Sasha).

>If it got some guys thinking about how they would feel if this happened:

>"You don't look like a programmer! When did you get into computers? That's kinda hot..."

I get THAT all the time. People (both men and women) don't believe that I'm a programmer because I don't look like a stereotypical geek. I'm over 6 feet tall, I work out, and I have numerous visible scars.

So, how do I feel about it? I don't. Why? Because I believe that people are honestly surprised to find a guy who looks like a cage fighter in this industry. They are even rarer than women. Sure, I can turn this into people discriminating against me based on my looks and start writing pointless posts, but I have projects to complete and a life to live.

>If it gets guys to stop saying THAT...then it was well worth the whole thing.

No, it will not get them to stop. The only reaction you'll get from a guy who reads that article is: "What a suck up!" A personal story written by a woman about the pain she went through because of such behavior will make them think hard about it. Guys do feel and most of us are not assholes on purpose.

Don't get me wrong, women do face real problems just because they are women and I feel their pain, but I don't believe that they need men writing about it. Women can and do speak for themselves. I don't believe that they are some fragile creatures that need a champion.

I am male and have received the "you don't look like a programmer" comment on numerous occasions. It usually comes from other men, so it's not typically followed by the "are you single?" question. Is it the latter that makes you uncomfortable? To be brutally honest, I find that kind of question rather flattering.

Another one I frequently hear: I farm as a hobby. When I meet someone and talk about my farming adventures first, then tell them I also develop software, they are always like "Whoa, you know how to program computers? But you are a farmer!" like a farmer isn't smart enough to do that kind of work. Personally, I think it is funny knowing that farming is the one that is far more mentally challenging out of the two, but it really could be hurtful if directed at the wrong person.

If it got some guys thinking about how they would feel if this happened:

"You don't look like a programmer! When did you get into computers? That's kinda hot..."

I'd have no problem with that at all, especially I found the woman attractive. As others have said, just flipping the genders in scenarios like that doesn't often work.

And is that really an awful way for guys to hit on you? They're going to do that anyway, and at least this way they're expressing interest in your interests, rather than just staring at your chest.

>And is that really an awful way for guys to hit on you? They're going to do that anyway, and at least this way they're expressing interest in your interests, rather than just staring at your chest.

If the man is attractive, women will generally welcome the flirtation. If he is unattractive, the woman will generally perceive it as an insult to her attractiveness, since the man should know better, that she is "out of his league."

Also, can anyone explain why it is considered a "good thing" to have a gender balance in tech, or any industry? Who decided that every industry must have an equal number of men and women?

> Also, can anyone explain why it is considered a "good thing" to have a gender balance in tech, or any industry?

We strive for a balance because that's a good way to avoid excluding people. Excluding groups of people is bad because they may have different ways to attack problems or different insights to bring to development etc.

Mono-cultures are generally weak and vulnerable. Diversity is generally robust.

>We strive for a balance because that's a good way to avoid excluding people. Excluding groups of people is bad because they may have different ways to attack problems or different insights to bring to development etc.

We exclude all sorts of groups, including the incompetent, all the time. There are cases when the benefits of including some group may cause a net detriment due to other factors.

>Mono-cultures are generally weak and vulnerable. Diversity is generally robust.

These glittering generalities are not backed up by any facts. "Diversity" often causes more problems than it purportedly solves, and generalizing "mono-cultures" as "weak and vulnerable" is not something that you can base on facts.

A lot of shops I have worked in the last 15 years had no such exclusion on incompetence....

Reply on news.ycombinator.com